Group Discussion Contest - March 8 to March 14

[quote]I have not quoted my views yet, even after the discussion has already progressed to its second stage.
Abid's question is
"Does Woman get empowered by current methods? What are the practical methods of women empowerment ? "

My answer is of course yes though all are not getting its true benefits. Most ladies are unaware of many of laws provided in Indian constitution. I would like to say, they are not properly utilizing them in a better way.
Best example is my neighbour...a lady of about 40 years just opposite to my present residence. Her kids are studying in plus two or so. Both her husband and mother-in-law treat her in a bad way. Both of them even beat her and close doors against her at night and she often sleeps in the terrace. If quarrel occurs, they won't even allow her to take food from kitchen.
It was just 1-2 months passed we came here, when I came to knew about the problems of this house. It was one night around 7.30 pm she came to my house. My husband has not arrived yet. She told me her problems. Her latest problem was that she gave a complaint to Vanitha commission against her husband and mother-in-law and some how, both people came to know about it. For the past 3 days, she was not allowed to get inside the home and they want her to take back that complaint, if she wants to stay there.
I was really shocked and felt sad that I can't help her any way. She asked me, whether she has done anything wrong......She also showed me some healed wounds in her hands.
I said, "definitely no". I also asked her, why she is tolerating it for past 20 years.
She is saying, she can go to her home and stay with her younger sister and family. But they make bad stories about her and brother-in-law. So, she is staying here tolerating all these.

Actually, I had no words to comfort her even though I want so. After sometime, she left my home and went to another person's house. Her husband was still standing at door waiting for her

2 days later, I heard, she take back her complaint from Vanitha commission. Was she right????? I don't think so.
So laws are there...but only a few people are making use of it. [/quote]

It is indeed very sad to read about the kind of torture that your neighbor is going through, Sandhya! But I sincerely feel that she is wrong to withdraw the complaint she made against her in-laws. She is going through such horrifc abuse for 20 long years!!! I really cannot imagine why she is doing that? Is she so completely without even a wee bit of self-respect? I am sure she must be educated, at least she must be having some basic degree. Why cannot she find strength to break from such abusive relations and strive to find a better life for herself and her children. She is already an emotional wreck, and what about her children? What kind of mental torment they must be undergoing every time their mother is beaten in front of their lives?

Thinking about a divorce or leaving a husband was unthinkable a couple of decades ago, but it is much more easier and most laws related to domestic abuse are mainly in favor of women. But most examples I have come across, it is the fear of stepping out of their homes is what keeps a woman chained to her abusive relations for the life time. In this matter, I really applaud a maid who used to work for me, she was forcefully married at age 17, had a son at age 18 and her husband was a mental imbecile, and does not use to work, used to drink and gamble. She took courage and left him without any qualms and is now nicely earning enough for her and her son's upkeep and education. I find this courage more evident amongst women from economically backward classes, wheres women from middle and higher income groups to be more fearful of stepping out in the world. Same goes for women who are earning as well. I find it appalling that in spite of education, they are still not confident. This attitude must change, a person who respects himself or herself gets respect from others.

Its more about a little psychology here! Showing beautiful women swooning around men who shave their faces with a particular brand of shaving cream makes the men feel more confident and in a dominant role, in short they feel like a man who makes the difference, this is why most ads feature women in roles that only seem to please and appease menfolk. and since male domination is everywhere, such ads work quite well and there is no way an admaker will resort to otherwise![/quote]

I am not denying that women are doing all this to keep herself bringing at par with the men folk. However there are better ways to do that and unless she herself would not decide and revolt against discrimination, there is nothing that would stop others taking advantage or should I call disadvantage of her over ambitions to succeed, if we can call it success.
I am lucky to have two women in my family of four adults who are as educated as I am and as good earner or better, than myself.
However I am hopeful and can see the position of women changing at a brisk rate. Atrocities are getting lesser. Hopefully they are heading to a place where men would have to hold their hats to keep it from falling. A greater height beyond our imagination.

So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.

So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.

We are operating in profit motivated capitalist economy where everything has a price. If women models get better price for their job, there appears no reason why they deny.

All that we need to ensure is that there is no gender based discrimination. Women should not be placed in disadvantageous position because of gender. The biggest obstacle to gender injustice is social standards that over stress women's morality and chastity as against male. This works to disadvantage of women. There are instances of sexual abuse of men and boys also. But despite such abuse, men do not suffer social stigma unlike women. If social awareness is created against such double standard,women will be more free. It is mainly women organizations function to fight against such discriminatory social standard. However, there is no such attempt. They ask only more safety against rape and molestation and more punishment to offenders. But stronger punishment only further strengthens the discriminatory social standards on morality and chastity to disadvantage of women.

So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.

Yes this is the customer who is paying in the last. But I do not understand that how can a girl make me shave from a different shaving cream from the one I am used to for so long. I know my face would never become as soft or defect-less as they show in a TV advert. But they can do wonders even to any actor's face, so may be mine too. But I am not as hopeful. I am happy with my own cream. :cheer:

[quote]I am not denying that women are doing all this to keep herself bringing at par with the men folk. However there are better ways to do that and unless she herself would not decide and revolt against discrimination, there is nothing that would stop others taking advantage or should I call disadvantage of her over ambitions to succeed, if we can call it success.
I am lucky to have two women in my family of four adults who are as educated as I am and as good earner or better, than myself.
However I am hopeful and can see the position of women changing at a brisk rate. Atrocities are getting lesser. Hopefully they are heading to a place where men would have to hold their hats to keep it from falling. A greater height beyond our imagination. [/quote]

Sunil, it is really great that your wife and daughter are educated and you too are striving to let them have independence of choosing what they would like to do. But where the ads are concerned and the women who model for those ads, it is still the question of economic prowess and the dominant gender that still calls the shots! It will simply not go away should women choose to stop making such ads, there will be hordes from other places who would quickly fill in. Also if such women can make big bucks in such a short-spanned career, who would refuse?

Also, notably you remark regarding atrocities being reduced, I do not think that';s the correct assumption, If anything they are still about the same as before or even increasing, although the nature may have changed. If its not a physical molestation, there are still the atrocities where women are discreetly filmed when changing clothes in a trial room at a mall or a hotel room and then blackmailed to do what they want for fear of the video going public.

A women may refuse whatever jobs that she thinks may exploit her, protest against many things, but so long as the total mentality of our society, which is mainly male-dominated, is unchanged, little can be done to actually give her the powers that will really and truly liberate her from all binds that exist visibly and emotionally.

[quote]Abid Areacode wrote:
So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.

Yes this is the customer who is paying in the last. But I do not understand that how can a girl make me shave from a different shaving cream from the one I am used to for so long. I know my face would never become as soft or defect-less as they show in a TV advert. But they can do wonders even to any actor's face, so may be mine too. But I am not as hopeful. I am happy with my own cream.
[/quote]

You probably may be very happy with the product of your choice, but actually more than 70% population of any city or town or village is extremely gullible and can be coerced into buying anything that is shown on TV ads. :whistle: :woohoo:

[quote]Abid Areacode wrote:
So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.


We are operating in profit motivated capitalist economy where everything has a price. If women models get better price for their job, there appears no reason why they deny.

All that we need to ensure is that there is no gender based discrimination. Women should not be placed in disadvantageous position because of gender. The biggest obstacle to gender injustice is social standards that over stress women's morality and chastity as against male. This works to disadvantage of women. There are instances of sexual abuse of men and boys also. But despite such abuse, men do not suffer social stigma unlike women. If social awareness is created against such double standard,women will be more free. It is mainly women organizations function to fight against such discriminatory social standard. However, there is no such attempt. They ask only more safety against rape and molestation and more punishment to offenders. But stronger punishment only further strengthens the discriminatory social standards on morality and chastity to disadvantage of women. [/quote]

The social discrimination that women have to face everywhere is not limited to sexual harassment, of course it is more serious and horrific when it occurs, but the other types of discrimination that are faced are quite diverse in nature. Especially for working women, promotions are really really hard to earn even though they may be deserving them. Unlike men, a working woman still has her responsibilities toward her family that are still waiting to fulfilled once she reaches home after filling in a 12-hour day at work. A man who works equal number of hours can just come home, fling his bag, loosen his tie and put up his feet and demand refreshments from his wife who has had an equally hard day and has just reached home, already working out in her head what to prepare for dinner and for breakfast and lunch the next day, while at the same time worrying about an in-laws illness and an upcoming appointment with a doctor a child or two. Does she get to relax on a couch with the TV remote and expect to fed by her husband? Most husbands would baulk at the idea and simply say that's a woman's job!! Is it any different than a gender-based social discrimination? Only difference being it happens within the confines of one's home and the women, who has been programmed for thousands of years that yes, it is her job, also has to resign to that fact and keep doing her chores, even though she may be dying from a painful back and her feet killing her after standing for hours waiting for bus and in the crowded bus! Any remedies to change this scenario???

[quote]Abid Areacode wrote:
So I think the ladies are to be more vigilant on all types of ads. Eventhough ladies are appearing in them it is just a consumer exploitation.


We are operating in profit motivated capitalist economy where everything has a price. If women models get better price for their job, there appears no reason why they deny.

All that we need to ensure is that there is no gender based discrimination. Women should not be placed in disadvantageous position because of gender. The biggest obstacle to gender injustice is social standards that over stress women's morality and chastity as against male. This works to disadvantage of women. There are instances of sexual abuse of men and boys also. But despite such abuse, men do not suffer social stigma unlike women. If social awareness is created against such double standard,women will be more free. It is mainly women organizations function to fight against such discriminatory social standard. However, there is no such attempt. They ask only more safety against rape and molestation and more punishment to offenders. But stronger punishment only further strengthens the discriminatory social standards on morality and chastity to disadvantage of women.

The social discrimination that women have to face everywhere is not limited to sexual harassment, of course it is more serious and horrific when it occurs, but the other types of discrimination that are faced are quite diverse in nature. Especially for working women, promotions are really really hard to earn even though they may be deserving them. Unlike men, a working woman still has her responsibilities toward her family that are still waiting to fulfilled once she reaches home after filling in a 12-hour day at work. A man who works equal number of hours can just come home, fling his bag, loosen his tie and put up his feet and demand refreshments from his wife who has had an equally hard day and has just reached home, already working out in her head what to prepare for dinner and for breakfast and lunch the next day, while at the same time worrying about an in-laws illness and an upcoming appointment with a doctor a child or two. Does she get to relax on a couch with the TV remote and expect to fed by her husband? Most husbands would baulk at the idea and simply say that's a woman's job!! Is it any different than a gender-based social discrimination? Only difference being it happens within the confines of one's home and the women, who has been programmed for thousands of years that yes, it is her job, also has to resign to that fact and keep doing her chores, even though she may be dying from a painful back and her feet killing her after standing for hours waiting for bus and in the crowded bus! Any remedies to change this scenario???[/quote]

Absolutely people do that and this is because of the society.We need to change the mentality. :)
I work in a company where there are 50~50 ratio of males and females and its true that there is no female at the top position may be management thinks that females are not as much dedicated to their job and can't devote much of the time as males can due to the additional responsibility they have of their homes. :angry:
Practical example i have seen it at my home my sis in law is a working woman and she earns better than my brother and even reaches after my brother comes back to home from office but she is supposed to cook dinner as well as she is more responsible for the kids and my brother just expects that she performs every responsibility with a flair and when she fails she is blamed. :angry:
But i think she is totally responsible for the situation in which she is in because she never asked her husband to share the household responsibility.Had she talked about this may be she would not have been in the situation she is in. :unsure:

[quote]Absolutely people do that and this is because of the society.We need to change the mentality.
I work in a company where there are 50~50 ratio of males and females and its true that there is no female at the top position may be management thinks that females are not as much dedicated to their job and can't devote much of the time as males can due to the additional responsibility they have of their homes.
Practical example i have seen it at my home my sis in law is a working woman and she earns better than my brother and even reaches after my brother comes back to home from office but she is supposed to cook dinner as well as she is more responsible for the kids and my brother just expects that she performs every responsibility with a flair and when she fails she is blamed.
But i think she is totally responsible for the situation in which she is in because she never asked her husband to share the household responsibility.Had she talked about this may be she would not have been in the situation she is in. [/quote]

Sanjeev, this is the exact scenario that is evident in all homes where a woman too is a contributor towards earning livelihood. with regards to earning top positions in a corporate house, the attitude is very much the same, a woman executive may log in to work at exactly 9 in the morning, will plow through her share of work throughout the day diligently and will complete everything allocated to her before leaving home at 6, and yet eyebrows are raised saying that she is unable to log in extra hours. A man on the other hand, will drop in after 9:30 am, will waste time saying hi and hello and in general, do everything he is not supposed to, and then evening will make a show of staying back to complete work in front of bosses, making it look like they are under pressure. A scene that I have myself often experienced during my working career!

Also, notably the very few women who do manage to secure topmost positions in a company, will be either single or divorced! That alone speaks volumes about the kind of support the ladies get from their own homes. We almost never or very seldom hear of a successful corporate top brass who is either single or divorced! Why cannot such support be extended to a woman who is a top gunner in an organization? No sir! no because her husband expects her to earn a fat packet of salary and still be at home to his beck and call whenever he so wishes!

[quote]
But i think she is totally responsible for the situation in which she is in because she never asked her husband to share the household responsibility.Had she talked about this may be she would not have been in the situation she is in. [/quote]

Yes, this is very true, the women are so keyed up and psyched about their roles around house that they do not ask for or let the men share their chores around house. but, Thankfully, most men are now sharing responsibilities very well and sharing in the cooking chores and looking after children etc.

[quote]
But i think she is totally responsible for the situation in which she is in because she never asked her husband to share the household responsibility.Had she talked about this may be she would not have been in the situation she is in.

Yes, this is very true, the women are so keyed up and psyched about their roles around house that they do not ask for or let the men share their chores around house. but, Thankfully, most men are now sharing responsibilities very well and sharing in the cooking chores and looking after children etc.[/quote]

Hi Kalyani i do understand it that's why i help out my wife in the household chores though i don't know cooking but i normally look after the kids while my wife does the household chores. :) My wife is not a working woman but as we have twin kids of aged 3 years so it is a problem for her to look after the kids together and i understand it so i do support her. :) But still there are people who raise their eyebrows seeing me doing the things which are supposed to be done by a woman traditionally but who cares i still do which i feel i should do let them think anything. :)

[quote]


Hi Kalyani i do understand it that's why i help out my wife in the household chores though i don't know cooking but i normally look after the kids while my wife does the household chores. :) My wife is not a working woman but as we have twin kids of aged 3 years so it is a problem for her to look after the kids together and i understand it so i do support her. :) But still there are people who raise their eyebrows seeing me doing the things which are supposed to be done by a woman traditionally but who cares i still do which i feel i should do let them think anything. :)

Hi Sanjeev I must go allover again and see the position in small towns and villages. Yes you are right I am so used to see from the specs of a Banglorian or big city people that I can not see people who act like what you have described. You see I am surrounded by people who would dare not make such activities. They simply can not afford to expect their wives to cook when they come from their jobs. They must either get an equal share or men folk must be ready to face the consequences. But yes I agree with you that this is the scenario in some places where the women have not yet known their rights. The day is not far when we all shall have to learn our lesson. I am glad for you you did it rather at the right time. You are safe. :P

Friends,
Still we have not reached the second part of the discussion.What are the practical methods for women empowerment?

Friends,
Still we have not reached the second part of the discussion.What are the practical methods for women empowerment?

Dear Abid, I started the day with a few suggestions for the same. I think this would not be wrong to put the link here about my thoughts in this matter-
http://www.boddunan.com/people-a-places/54-Social%20Life/19168-women-have-every-right-to-stand-tall-in-the-society.html

@Abid

As far as I understand taking practical measures lies to a great extent in the the sphere of governmental agencies and social organizations. It is clear enough from the rising graph crimes against women and unequal response of society to thesecrimes. Unless we ensure a relatively crime-free environment for our women,how can we expect them to come out and roam free to pursue their career goals towards economic empowerment and consequent emancipation. We must have separate courts for trying crimes against women.We need to have separate police stations run by women. We have to focus on their education,phsical defense,vocational training et al.

Sorry! It's a double post!

[quote]Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

But i think she is totally responsible for the situation in which she is in because she never asked her husband to share the household responsibility.Had she talked about this may be she would not have been in the situation she is in.


Yes, this is very true, the women are so keyed up and psyched about their roles around house that they do not ask for or let the men share their chores around house. but, Thankfully, most men are now sharing responsibilities very well and sharing in the cooking chores and looking after children etc.


Hi Kalyani i do understand it that's why i help out my wife in the household chores though i don't know cooking but i normally look after the kids while my wife does the household chores. My wife is not a working woman but as we have twin kids of aged 3 years so it is a problem for her to look after the kids together and i understand it so i do support her. But still there are people who raise their eyebrows seeing me doing the things which are supposed to be done by a woman traditionally but who cares i still do which i feel i should do let them think anything. [/quote]

Hi Sanjeev, that's really sweet of you, I wish more and more men understand and help out their wives and mothers in the same manner. My husband too helps me a lot around the house and what's more, every morning when I am busy with cooking and other chores, he has taken full responsibility of waking my son, getting him ready for school and drops him off to school. He also helps me in cooking a little bit, as much as he can when required. I have also taught him to roll out and roast rotis should need ever arise :evil: ha ha ha. Anyway, that has made my life very very easy!

[quote]@Abid

As far as I understand taking practical measures lies to a great extent in the the sphere of governmental agencies and social organizations. It is clear enough from the rising graph crimes against women and unequal response of society to thesecrimes. Unless we ensure a relatively crime-free environment for our women,how can we expect them to come out and roam free to pursue their career goals towards economic empowerment and consequent emancipation. We must have separate courts for trying crimes against women.We need to have separate police stations run by women. We have to focus on their education,phsical defense,vocational training et al. [/quote]

@Chinmoy, I agree totally! There are actually many areas where there are special facilities or provisions made for women but lack of empathy and enforcement agencies do not let women avail those facilities peacefully. Eg., in Pune, in all the PMPML buses run by corporation, all the right hand side seats of the bus are reserved for women, but are occupied mostly by men and when the women who are standing ask them to vacate the seats, these men try to bully them and further humiliate them with snide remarks regarding equality of gender and reservation etc. Most women to avoid public embarassment choose to simply stand and travel. Even women traveling with babies in their arms, pregnant, old women are not spared. I myself have undergone this scenario whenever I had to travel with my little son. The conductor and driver of the bus do not come to the women's rescue since they could easily force the men to give up their seats, but either they choose to look the other way of they simply join in the humiliation of the woman who tries to fight against this.

Which is why I think full emancipation and empowerment of women will never be possible unless there are serious government agencies in place to ensure that the w2omen get all the facilities and help that are established for their sake.

Another important aspect that is much ignored is the lack of public sanitation facilities for women. Men's public toilets are no issue, but lack of women's toilets make life miserable for many. Especially women like police constables, traveling saleswomen etc. who have to be on their feet the whole day. Life is especially difficult for them during their monthly times when they cannot even change every few hours due to lack of clean and hygienic facilities. This gives rise to many diseases and health problems. This is a very very serious issue that should be addressed on an immediate basis.

When women are faced with so many grave issues, with threat to their life and health being the first and foremost concern, how can one think that true empowerment will become a reality??

@Kalyani

What you have portrayed is the scenario in general and it has to be kept in mind that Pune is almost a metro as far my knowledge goes. If the situation could be like this, one can form an opinion about the true situation prevailing in rural and semi-rural areas. In fact, I still can't forget the terror-stricken faces of women at bust stands in New Delhi after dusk!