Koh-i-noor Diamond - Legal Challenge against Queen Elizabeth

I'm referring the article link. The group of people who are interested to carry on investigation to get back the Kohinoor back to India revealed in the link.

I sugges that Kohinoor diamond be declared as international heritage and place inUnited Narions Headquarters. Maharaja Ranjit singh was last ruler who possessed the diamond before transferto England. Lahore the capital of Mahara Ranjit singh is now in Pakistan who can also claim the diamond. 

A good suggestion indeed. The Best place would be the the UN head quarters, where it be provided with all necessary maintenance besides Safety measures. It would be the most visited place.

rambabu wrote:

suni51 wrote:

rambabu wrote:

Yes David De' Souza from Indian  Leisure group took the campaign and says that the 105 carat diamond from India was stolen from India and demands that the British Government should return it back.

 

As much I know it was not stolen but was gifted to Queen during English rule.

There are different versions. The jewel was given to the reigning queen of the time by the last ruler of the Sikhs Duleep Singh after the British annexed Punjab. Then over the years, it was passed on to the Britishers and landed finally in the Britain. But the present Group says that the British had stolen the Diamond according to the article link

It is not right that British had stolen this diamond. It is gifted by Dalip Singh to British India company and there are British Indian company gift it to Queen. Maharaja Dalip also gave his state to British. After changing religion Dalip singh became a Christian. He married with British girl and setteled in Britain. There is noting wrong in trying to get it back, but it very hard job. Good Luck

 

 

 

anil wrote:

rambabu wrote:

suni51 wrote:

rambabu wrote:

Yes David De' Souza from Indian  Leisure group took the campaign and says that the 105 carat diamond from India was stolen from India and demands that the British Government should return it back.

 

As much I know it was not stolen but was gifted to Queen during English rule.

There are different versions. The jewel was given to the reigning queen of the time by the last ruler of the Sikhs Duleep Singh after the British annexed Punjab. Then over the years, it was passed on to the Britishers and landed finally in the Britain. But the present Group says that the British had stolen the Diamond according to the article link

It is not right that British had stolen this diamond. It is gifted by Dalip Singh to British India company and there are British Indian company gift it to Queen. Maharaja Dalip also gave his state to British. After changing religion Dalip singh became a Christian. He married with British girl and setteled in Britain. There is noting wrong in trying to get it back, but it very hard job. Good Luck

A very good historic details. Yes, as you said Kohinoor should be brought back to India. As it belongs to this country However I liked GulshanJi's suggestion also to  give it a Heritage status and should be kept at UN general Headquarters

 

 

 

 

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Lopamudra wrote:

It was not gifted. Maharaja Ranjit Singh had built the huge sikh empire and the Britishers were quite wary of him, but after his death ,the empire started collapsing. His sons were incompetent . They lost the first Anglo-Sikh war. His older sons were removed off power and then died( I think). Duleep Singh was his youngest son and was ruling at that time. He was a very young boy and was being advised by his mother. Then, the Lahore treaty was signed .The Britishers took advantage of this win, and showed that The koh i noor,which was with Ranjit Singh's family, was gifted to the Britishers but actually they took it because they won the Anglo Sikh war. Actually it was willed by Maharaja Ranjit Singh to be donated to a temple(don't know which). Those interested in History of that period do read'The Return of a King' by William Dalrymple..Engrossing!!

According to what little I have read about history of that particular period, yours come closest to the truth and therefore I too agree that the Queen should be challenged and brought back. However, I think that unless and until the group who is campaigning for the diamond to be brought back have thought thoroughly about preserving and protecting the gem . Unless and until they arfe not ready to do so or have no provisions for the same, let it remain with the British Royalty for it will be protected there much better than in India.

Reason I am saying so is a recent heartwrenching incident that occurred in Maharashtra a couple of years ago. In 1998, a copper box was found in a farm while ploughing in a small seaside town of Diveagar, Raigad district, Konkan. The box was found to contain a 1.5 kilogram pure gold statue of Ganesh inscribed with Sanskrit script which upon study, revealed it to date back to 10th century. A temple was built to house the Ganesha and it lead to increase in tourism and prosperity of the village. However, as always, not much attention was paid to security and about two years ago, the idol was stolen. After an intensive manhunt, the culprits were identified and apprehended, although by the time they were caught, they had managed to sell the idol and the buyers had melted it already. This is the state of totally sad affairs relating to preservation and protection of artefacts that narrate tales of our ancient history! So unless anyone can guarantee such things cannot happen, only then the gem should be brought back.

 

That's valid point  Kalyani. A very sad state of affairs indeed. That does make me think if it is really a good idea to bring it here though it rightfully belongs here!

 

 

 

 

anil wrote:

rambabu wrote:

suni51 wrote:

rambabu wrote:

Yes David De' Souza from Indian  Leisure group took the campaign and says that the 105 carat diamond from India was stolen from India and demands that the British Government should return it back.

 

As much I know it was not stolen but was gifted to Queen during English rule.

There are different versions. The jewel was given to the reigning queen of the time by the last ruler of the Sikhs Duleep Singh after lo British annexed Punjab. Then over the yearso it was passed on to the Britishers and landed finally in the Britain. But the present Group says that the British had stolen the Diamond according to the article link

It is not right that British had stolen this diamond. It is gifted by Dalip Singh to British India company and there are British Indian company gift it to Queen. Maharaja Dalip also gave his state to British. After changing religion Dalip singh became a Christian. He married with British girl and setteled in Britain. There is noting wrong in trying to get it back, but it very hard job. Good Luck

 

Duleep Singh was a very young boy, 8/9 years old. He was also taken away from his mother. He could not have gifted the diamond. It was confiscated by the East India company and gifted to the Queen. 

 

 

 

 

Adding some details about Kohinoor diamond. It was first mentioned in 1306 while it was in possession of Rajah of Malwa and at that time it apparently weighed 186 carats the shape and size of a small Hens egg.From 1306 it has changed hands many times , gone into the possession of Mughal Kings and Hindu rulers. Babar had it for some time and Shah Jehan had it placed in his ornate Peacock throne. It became famous and known worlwide when a French traveler, Jean Baptiste Tavernier, who was an expert at valuating diamonds wrote about Kohinoor calling it The Great Mughal because it was in the hands of Mughal Kings.

Finally it landed in the hands of Ranjit singh and Governor Dal Housie was responsible for manipulating the weak Sikh empire and taking possession of Kohinoor. To make it look like a gift he arranged that Ranjt singh's successor Duleep Singh should present it to queen Victoria , who was the empress of India , then.

In 1852 the Kohinoor was re cut to increase its brilliance and mounted in a tiara with other smaller diamonds . 

The mysterious curse that the diamond has - 'He owns the diamond has the world , will also know all its misfortunes. Only God or a woman can wear it with impunity " It is not sure how and when this curse originated but there is violence and bloodshed among all male royalty that took possession of the diamond. Britishers knowing about this made sure that it was worn by their reigning queen..

http://themystery2012.blogspot.in/2012/07/kohinoor-diamond.html

Very interesting facts I came to know about Kohinoor through this thread. After reading all the valuable informations on Kohinoor it is certain now that it belongs to India so it should be returned to India. Now, as the question has come up regarding the protection of the gem then it is really a matter to think about. It must be protected in the best possible way.

Shampa Sadhya wrote:

Very interesting facts I came to know about Kohinoor through this thread. After reading all the valuable informations on Kohinoor it is certain now that it belongs to India so it should be returned to India. Now, as the question has come up regarding the protection of the gem then it is really a matter to think about. It must be protected in the best possible way.

Indians are hardly known for preserving and protecting our priceless heritage, be it architecture, priceless rare idols, paintings or whatever. Once, there was a roaring trade of smuggled items that contained rare, beautiful and most exquisitely made stone and brass idols stolen from temples across the country. The thieves and smugglers all were Indians who did not give even a bit of thought that the stuff they were stealing and selling to Europeans and Americans were pride and prestige of our country. The smuggling also could not have been possible if the lawmakers and lawkeepers had been even a little more efficient than they are now. It is possibly courtesy or positive relation-building efforts undertaken by Modi that some countries have volunteered and started to return a few of our such artefacts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/10/05/merkel-durga-idol_n_8243926.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/australian-art-gallery-to-return-2000-year-old-buddha-idol-to-india/

However, I still maintain that unless more robust and professional efforts are taken and implemented to preserve and protect such things, we should not bring them back. Because I have seen many museums in India where the conditions that are needed to preserve such rare, centuries old items are not maintained and they gradually fall prey to deterioration. I know that only the Prince of Wales Museum in Mumbai takes such efforts for a fact. Only those museums that are capable of maintaining such needed conditions and providing security should attempt to house such rare priceless artifacts.

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Shampa Sadhya wrote:

Very interesting facts I came to know about Kohinoor through this thread. After reading all the valuable informations on Kohinoor it is certain now that it belongs to India so it should be returned to India. Now, as the question has come up regarding the protection of the gem then it is really a matter to think about. It must be protected in the best possible way.

Indians are hardly known for preserving and protecting our priceless heritage, be it architecture, priceless rare idols, paintings or whatever. Once, there was a roaring trade of smuggled items that contained rare, beautiful and most exquisitely made stone and brass idols stolen from temples across the country. The thieves and smugglers all were Indians who did not give even a bit of thought that the stuff they were stealing and selling to Europeans and Americans were pride and prestige of our country. The smuggling also could not have been possible if the lawmakers and lawkeepers had been even a little more efficient than they are now. It is possibly courtesy or positive relation-building efforts undertaken by Modi that some countries have volunteered and started to return a few of our such artefacts.

http://www.huffingtonpost.in/2015/10/05/merkel-durga-idol_n_8243926.html

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-news-india/australian-art-gallery-to-return-2000-year-old-buddha-idol-to-india/

However, I still maintain that unless more robust and professional efforts are taken and implemented to preserve and protect such things, we should not bring them back. Because I have seen many museums in India where the conditions that are needed to preserve such rare, centuries old items are not maintained and they gradually fall prey to deterioration. I know that only the Prince of Wales Museum in Mumbai takes such efforts for a fact. Only those museums that are capable of maintaining such needed conditions and providing security should attempt to house such rare priceless artifacts.

I am of he same opinion...You never know what would happen to Kohinoor once its is brought here ! As long as it is in Britain it is being displayed there in the royal gallery and one is aware of its whereabouts but once here it will be shrouded in mystery and over a period of time it may vanish like important files and artifacts disappear from time to time.

In present day India fake Kohi-i-noor will be on display and the real one will be on auction at Christies. Better  it lies where it is.

the koh-i-noor diamond is a part of India history and it should be returned to India voluntarily  

According to the history, Koh- i- noor is believed to have been mined in the Kollur mine in the Guntur district of Andhra Pradesh, during the reign of Kakatiya dynasty in the 13 th century. It was installed in a Hindu goddess as her eve.

 But David Cameroon, who is presently in India said in no certain terms that Koh- i-noor will not be returned back to India.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/21/koh-i-noor-diamond-not-returned-india-david-cameron-insists-pictures_n_2732342.html

Kohinoor has history attached to it and it is not easy to bring it back easily as and when India feels like it ...Of course legal angles will be tried out but whether anyone would succeed is something we have to wait and see since it involves too many red tape ..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/returning-treasures-kohinoor-diamond-india-british-museum

usha manohar wrote:

Kohinoor has history attached to it and it is not easy to bring it back easily as and when India feels like it ...Of course legal angles will be tried out but whether anyone would succeed is something we have to wait and see since it involves too many red tape ..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/11/returning-treasures-kohinoor-diamond-india-british-museum

What is in trying? Claims and leave the rest for God.

Kohinoor has to be snatched from the British as they did it from us. Niceties are not going to bring it back. Even the PM is silent on the issue. It needs a different mind set to get it back. FDI seeking Indians can not get it back.

As much as everyone would love to see the precious gem back here where it belongs, I think it should be challenged, it does seem like a very difficult task .It's surrender was one of the terms/clauses of the Treaty of Lahore . And even if India succeeds, where should it go thereafter? There would be plenty of claimants within the country itself . And as discussed earlier, who can guarantee its fate would not be something like Tagore's Nobel prize medal ??

Lopamudra wrote:

As much as everyone would love to see the precious gem back here where it belongs, I think it should be challenged, it does seem like a very difficult task .It's surrender was one of the terms/clauses of the Treaty of Lahore . And even if India succeeds, where should it go thereafter? There would be plenty of claimants within the country itself . And as discussed earlier, who can guarantee its fate would not be something like Tagore's Nobel prize medal ??

Exactly my thoughts! And as Usha too has mentioned previously that as long as it is displayed in the Royal museum in London, it is safe and everyone is aware of its whereabouts. But once it comes back to India, there will be a lot of ugly dramas regarding its claim and then the usual inefficiency involved in preserving and protecting it. It is safe where it is already present.

India will fight  tooth and nail and will not hesitate to use all its available resources at its disposal. But , it certainty is a Herculean task for India. Especially, David Cameroon's statement, the PM of Britain when he said, Koh - I - Noor will not be returned to India during Indian PM's visit to Britain.