It is often considered that vedic chants have some postive effects and now scientist are knowing that... team of scientists will attempt to find out the answers when they descend on the ancient village of Panjal in Kerala to study the 3,100-year-old Vedic ritual called Athirathram in April.
http://green.in.msn.com/greennews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4798607&page=0
19 Replies
This is interesting post. The link gives detailed description of research contemplated covering diverse branches of Science. But it is doubtful whether the 'experts' are actually scientists. This is apparently a pseudo scientific exercise. So far, nowhere in the world, we witnessed rain or fire through mere chanting. If this were true, the entire world would have derived benefits of getting desired climate just by chanting.
Gulshan, I understand your scepticism on this issue, but it is true that many of our rites such as Yagnas etc. were used to invoke rains. But it is not the mere chants that do it, it is a combination of various elements, the resources used in these yagnas, the procedure and the way these chants are recited that make a difference.
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts!
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts!
Though I have not yet visited the link but i am a non believer since any thing without logic to me is like eating a delicious looking dish but which is without salt and so tasteless.Since neither I have been able to apply my own reasoning to it nor read anything about it logical, so I remain a non believer.
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
[quote]Gulshan, I understand your scepticism on this issue, but it is true that many of our rites such as Yagnas etc. were used to invoke rains. But it is not the mere chants that do it, it is a combination of various elements, the resources used in these yagnas, the procedure and the way these chants are recited that make a difference.
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts![/quote]
But Kalyani, with all the respect to vedas and yagnas etc. we have not seen all these things in our age. If there were hundreds of thosands of examples in the past , why are there no examples today? even Tansen example that you cited has not been proved till date. I think there have been great music maestros even after him but no body has been able to do so.Why?
[quote]Gulshan, I understand your scepticism on this issue, but it is true that many of our rites such as Yagnas etc. were used to invoke rains. But it is not the mere chants that do it, it is a combination of various elements, the resources used in these yagnas, the procedure and the way these chants are recited that make a difference.
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts![/quote]
But Kalyani, with all the respect to vedas and yagnas etc. we have not seen all these things in our age. If there were hundreds of thosands of examples in the past , why are there no examples today? even Tansen example that you cited has not been proved till date. I think there have been great music maestros even after him but no body has been able to do so.Why?
[quote]But Kalyani, with all the respect to vedas and yagnas etc. we have not seen all these things in our age. If there were hundreds of thosands of examples in the past , why are there no examples today? even Tansen example that you cited has not been proved till date. I think there have been great music maestros even after him but no body has been able to do so.Why? [/quote]
Rajesh, I understand your point of view, but given the circumstances of the decline of our ancient yet, complete traditions, civilization, whatever one may choose to call it, all I can say is the reason for it would be that pure sciences, be that of any discipline, music, architecture, ayurveda so on and so forth, have not remained pure or exact! In over two hundred years of slavery and the turmoil that preceded it, we have only declined in glory and knowledge! Subsequent casteism, blind faith in religious rites, the habit that we grew into of apeing west and adopting them is more or less the reason for it!
Rajesh, I understand your point of view, but given the circumstances of the decline of our ancient yet, complete traditions, civilization, whatever one may choose to call it, all I can say is the reason for it would be that pure sciences, be that of any discipline, music, architecture, ayurveda so on and so forth, have not remained pure or exact! In over two hundred years of slavery and the turmoil that preceded it, we have only declined in glory and knowledge! Subsequent casteism, blind faith in religious rites, the habit that we grew into of apeing west and adopting them is more or less the reason for it!
[quote]But I believe that that vibrations which are produced by chanting mantras create some energy or force which will make things happen in a right way.Also,that's why mass prayers yield positive result(many times and not every time).It increases the positive energy,faith and hope. [/quote]
Its true Nagalakshmi!
Its true Nagalakshmi!
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
[quote]Gulshan, I understand your scepticism on this issue, but it is true that many of our rites such as Yagnas etc. were used to invoke rains. But it is not the mere chants that do it, it is a combination of various elements, the resources used in these yagnas, the procedure and the way these chants are recited that make a difference.
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts![/quote]
Vedas or anything else, the chanting is only of words.all words in any language contain nothing but alphabets: consonants and vowels. These make sense only when you understand the language or meaning of the words. These are primarily for communication of ideas. The poems and songs may delight by funny meaning, satire and reasoning. Also reciting in a particular way is pleasure to ears. This is musical affect.
The clouds are not animate and hence, it is unlikely that any musical affect can make them drop water. The process of evaporation of water from sea, forming clouds and rain dropping is water cycle known to students of physics. There is no role of any mantras in this.
[quote]Gulshan, I understand your scepticism on this issue, but it is true that many of our rites such as Yagnas etc. were used to invoke rains. But it is not the mere chants that do it, it is a combination of various elements, the resources used in these yagnas, the procedure and the way these chants are recited that make a difference.
eg. Tansen by sheer prowess of his singing used to lit diyas is no myth, there are many written accounts of his extraordinary feat that prove it! ]
Actually, the vedas, the classical music are all based on scientific theories and hence are useful even today, but provided they are performed in a very disciplined and systematic manner with no shortcuts![/quote]
Vedas or anything else, the chanting is only of words.all words in any language contain nothing but alphabets: consonants and vowels. These make sense only when you understand the language or meaning of the words. These are primarily for communication of ideas. The poems and songs may delight by funny meaning, satire and reasoning. Also reciting in a particular way is pleasure to ears. This is musical affect.
The clouds are not animate and hence, it is unlikely that any musical affect can make them drop water. The process of evaporation of water from sea, forming clouds and rain dropping is water cycle known to students of physics. There is no role of any mantras in this.
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
[quote][quote]But Kalyani, with all the respect to vedas and yagnas etc. we have not seen all these things in our age. If there were hundreds of thosands of examples in the past , why are there no examples today? even Tansen example that you cited has not been proved till date. I think there have been great music maestros even after him but no body has been able to do so.Why? [/quote]
Rajesh, I understand your point of view, but given the circumstances of the decline of our ancient yet, complete traditions, civilization, whatever one may choose to call it, all I can say is the reason for it would be that pure sciences, be that of any discipline, music, architecture, ayurveda so on and so forth, have not remained pure or exact! In over two hundred years of slavery and the turmoil that preceded it, we have only declined in glory and knowledge! Subsequent casteism, blind faith in religious rites, the habit that we grew into of apeing west and adopting them is more or less the reason for it![/quote]
Kalyani, i read your reply and pondered over it for a while but my logic is still not allowing me to believe.You mentioned music.Even far later we produced great music GHARANAs in Kashi and Awadh and today also we have great music maestros.You mentioned Ayurveda,today it is in the process of regaining its lost glory.Architecture-We built one of the seven wonders of the world which we can see with our own eyes even today.Agreed we have aped west,but we cant afford to be chauvinists while praising our culture and civilisation.We must not be blind while praising ourselves.I feel proud when we say we have taught YOGA to the world,it is being followed all over the world cutting through castes creeds and religions.It has proved its worth and nobody can question its usefulness to health. But acoustic vibrations causing rain drops to fall! I am still unable to take it.
[quote][quote]But Kalyani, with all the respect to vedas and yagnas etc. we have not seen all these things in our age. If there were hundreds of thosands of examples in the past , why are there no examples today? even Tansen example that you cited has not been proved till date. I think there have been great music maestros even after him but no body has been able to do so.Why? [/quote]
Rajesh, I understand your point of view, but given the circumstances of the decline of our ancient yet, complete traditions, civilization, whatever one may choose to call it, all I can say is the reason for it would be that pure sciences, be that of any discipline, music, architecture, ayurveda so on and so forth, have not remained pure or exact! In over two hundred years of slavery and the turmoil that preceded it, we have only declined in glory and knowledge! Subsequent casteism, blind faith in religious rites, the habit that we grew into of apeing west and adopting them is more or less the reason for it![/quote]
Kalyani, i read your reply and pondered over it for a while but my logic is still not allowing me to believe.You mentioned music.Even far later we produced great music GHARANAs in Kashi and Awadh and today also we have great music maestros.You mentioned Ayurveda,today it is in the process of regaining its lost glory.Architecture-We built one of the seven wonders of the world which we can see with our own eyes even today.Agreed we have aped west,but we cant afford to be chauvinists while praising our culture and civilisation.We must not be blind while praising ourselves.I feel proud when we say we have taught YOGA to the world,it is being followed all over the world cutting through castes creeds and religions.It has proved its worth and nobody can question its usefulness to health. But acoustic vibrations causing rain drops to fall! I am still unable to take it.
Gulshan wrote:[quote]Vedas or anything else, the chanting is only of words.all words in any language contain nothing but alphabets: consonants and vowels. These make sense only when you understand the language or meaning of the words. These are primarily for communication of ideas. The poems and songs may delight by funny meaning, satire and reasoning. Also reciting in a particular way is pleasure to ears. This is musical affect.
The clouds are not animate and hence, it is unlikely that any musical affect can make them drop water. The process of evaporation of water from sea, forming clouds and rain dropping is water cycle known to students of physics. There is no role of any mantras in this. [/quote]
Rajesh wrote:
[quote]Kalyani, i read your reply and pondered over it for a while but my logic is still not allowing me to believe.You mentioned music.Even far later we produced great music GHARANAs in Kashi and Awadh and today also we have great music maestros.You mentioned Ayurveda,today it is in the process of regaining its lost glory.Architecture-We built one of the seven wonders of the world which we can see with our own eyes even today.Agreed we have aped west,but we cant afford to be chauvinists while praising our culture and civilisation.We must not be blind while praising ourselves.I feel proud when we say we have taught YOGA to the world,it is being followed all over the world cutting through castes creeds and religions.It has proved its worth and nobody can question its usefulness to health. But acoustic vibrations causing rain drops to fall! I am still unable to take it.[/quote]
To answer your scepticism Gulshan, yu do agree that it is the vibrations that matter. These hymns or vedic chants when pronounced naturally do not make any difference. But if you remember, in some other thread some time back, on a similar topic, I had said that there is a distinct way of pronouncing these hymns, how each syllable is pronounced, which syllable needs to be enhanced or softened etc. these are called aghatas and they produce specific vibrations which do help in bringing the particles of the air, mainly oxygen and hydrogen together to form water droplets.
To answer your question Rajesh, why do you find it hard to believe that these yagnas can bring rain? You surely must have heard about the chemically-induced rains that are occasionally produced in Russia and USA?
To come to our Indian practice of performing yagnas, you do know that these yagnas involve incessant burning of specific kinds of woods with huge amounts of ghee and other ingredients being offered into it. Along with the chants pronounced by hundreds of priests, the yagnas produces situation with similar effects that are created to chemically induce the rains. Only difference being that we use mainly natural ingredients rather than chemical.s
The clouds are not animate and hence, it is unlikely that any musical affect can make them drop water. The process of evaporation of water from sea, forming clouds and rain dropping is water cycle known to students of physics. There is no role of any mantras in this. [/quote]
Rajesh wrote:
[quote]Kalyani, i read your reply and pondered over it for a while but my logic is still not allowing me to believe.You mentioned music.Even far later we produced great music GHARANAs in Kashi and Awadh and today also we have great music maestros.You mentioned Ayurveda,today it is in the process of regaining its lost glory.Architecture-We built one of the seven wonders of the world which we can see with our own eyes even today.Agreed we have aped west,but we cant afford to be chauvinists while praising our culture and civilisation.We must not be blind while praising ourselves.I feel proud when we say we have taught YOGA to the world,it is being followed all over the world cutting through castes creeds and religions.It has proved its worth and nobody can question its usefulness to health. But acoustic vibrations causing rain drops to fall! I am still unable to take it.[/quote]
To answer your scepticism Gulshan, yu do agree that it is the vibrations that matter. These hymns or vedic chants when pronounced naturally do not make any difference. But if you remember, in some other thread some time back, on a similar topic, I had said that there is a distinct way of pronouncing these hymns, how each syllable is pronounced, which syllable needs to be enhanced or softened etc. these are called aghatas and they produce specific vibrations which do help in bringing the particles of the air, mainly oxygen and hydrogen together to form water droplets.
To answer your question Rajesh, why do you find it hard to believe that these yagnas can bring rain? You surely must have heard about the chemically-induced rains that are occasionally produced in Russia and USA?
To come to our Indian practice of performing yagnas, you do know that these yagnas involve incessant burning of specific kinds of woods with huge amounts of ghee and other ingredients being offered into it. Along with the chants pronounced by hundreds of priests, the yagnas produces situation with similar effects that are created to chemically induce the rains. Only difference being that we use mainly natural ingredients rather than chemical.s
To my mind knowledge can not be compartmentalized as Oriental and Occidental! What our ancient scriptures and literature recorded is existence of scientific temper which modern science has been endeavoring to develop further.And this scientific temper has no room for acceptance of unverified facts!
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