Indo Pak Relationship

The future of Indo-Pak relationship looks extremely bleak and Pakistan is solely responsble for this state of affairs. Whenever there have been genuine efforts to make peace with that nation vested interests did everything to wreck it. I knew from the authoritative work of a contemporary leading historian that a deal was almost clinched by Nehru,Ayub Khan and Abdulla towards the formation of a confederation but Nehru's death put paid to that. The reference to German reunification is not apt.The people of Germany never have had a choice in the division of their motherland. 

chinmoymukherjee wrote:

The future of Indo-Pak relationship looks extremely bleak and Pakistan is solely responsble for this state of affairs. Whenever there have been genuine efforts to make peace with that nation vested interests did everything to wreck it. I knew from the authoritative work of a contemporary leading historian that a deal was almost clinched by Nehru,Ayub Khan and Abdulla towards the formation of a confederation but Nehru's death put paid to that. The reference to German reunification is not apt.The people of Germany never have had a choice in the division of their motherland. 

True...when Germany was broken apart, the people from both East and West Germany  were heartbroken and they never gave up hopes of seeing their country united again. They Kept trying until it actually happened. However, when India was divided, the colonialists had already managed to divide people by their hearts and so the physical division remained merely a formality. People had already been divided and all the ensuing political circus since then has managed to drive the divide further into the ground turning it into a deep chasm that cannot be crossed. However the least we can do is hope for a certain level of mutual respect and understanding and exist peacefully similar to nations in the European Union.

It has been seen in many cultural exchanges that the people of both countries have learnt something out of the partition. Both of them could not forget their past links. It is on the part of those only who have managed some posts in the Government, bureaucracy, army, politics and terror-oriented organizations which may never feel easy with the unification with the fear of loosing their present status. Secondly, Hindustan was also forced for the division - Mr.Jinnah and some of Indian politicians had become the puppets of the British who never wished this continent to be peaceful after their departure and finally divided the country into two parts. The British had started their evil as early as the year 1857. If it had been the choice of the people of both religions fully, the muslim families who did not migrate would have also gone to Pakistan at that time. The people of both countries can consider about the unification for a peaceful life ahead.

Vinod Kumar Gulati wrote:

It has been seen in many cultural exchanges that the people of both countries have learnt something out of the partition. Both of them could not forget their past links. It is on the part of those only who have managed some posts in the Government, bureaucracy, army, politics and terror-oriented organizations which may never feel easy with the unification with the fear of loosing their present status. Secondly, Hindustan was also forced for the division - Mr.Jinnah and some of Indian politicians had become the puppets of the British who never wished this continent to be peaceful after their departure and finally divided the country into two parts. The British had started their evil as early as the year 1857. If it had been the choice of the people of both religions fully, the muslim families who did not migrate would have also gone to Pakistan at that time. The people of both countries can consider about the unification for a peaceful life ahead.

 

There is no denying that partition was painful and people who had to leave home were the worst affected. But the cause and the basis of partition and the tension thereafter is a different story altogether.If my knowledge serves me right, the idea of Muslim country was initially conceived by Md Iqbal( the creator of 'Sare Jahan se achcha' ). Jinnah although took the final step and therefore termed as the one responsible, was initially not keen on it and in fact was against it. The persuasion by Iqbal took quite a while to convince him. The logic behind the idea was -after independence, Muslims would never be able to gain majority and will forever remain minority since that had been the case even when Mughal empire was in power. So Pakistan should come into existance which would comprise of Punjab, Sind,Baluchstan (the name was derived from the first letters of these states).

Britishers had earlier played on the divide and rule policy for their convenience.When they knew they had to leave, they were not really interested whether we divided or stayed united. In fact, from what I've read, Mountbaten negotiated a great deal with Jinnah. The Britishers were in a hurry to leave not only due to the hostility they faced from India but also because their own country was in trouble. Radcliff was called from Britain to draw the border after the partition was decided.The problems that were there then,still remain. So, where is the possibility of unification.

So far as Govt gaining from having India divided is a little unbelievable because by unifying the nations the govt(any) will get the credit of doing the unimaginable. So, far as Army is concerned, their status has nothing to do with unification.If it had been, then even US army should be minus status because they don't have the Pakis as their neighbours. They will always be respected by most people whether Pakistan exists or not ..in fact religious tolerance is something one can learn from them. Being a retired Army officer's daughter I can vouch for that.

 

It is true that many of Bengalis  still remember fondly the memoirs of United India.  The third generation of those Bengalis used to discuss in detail of how their Grand fathers used lead a happy life sans fear.

It were the  Britishers who divided the country. In this process they made the leaders like Jinnah and some Indian leaders as their leaders. While Mahatma Gandhi tried his best to stop the partition, Nehru did not want to see Jinnah as the First Prime minister of Independent India.

 

Thinking about unification is impossible given the present day situation and what has happened in the past between the two countries. Such a move if at all attempted can only give rise to innumerable complications, so we are better off as we are now...

Even if India had not been partitioned Jinnah could never have become its first PM. Congress fought for India's freedom so it had to be a Congressman. Jinnah and his supporters rightly concluded that on one man one vote basis Muslims as a group could never be in a majority in any legislature or at the Centre. They thus concluded that they would become second class citizens at the mercy of Hindus. Thus Jinnah did not have faith in democracy and secularism. It is also not fair to keep blaming the British for India's partition. Remember till 1857 major parts of India was under the rule of the East India Company, It was only after the uprising against them in 1857 that the British took official control of India and it became its colony. In a way it was good that partition took place before the British left. What choice had the departing British, insistent Muslim League and fatigued Congress but to mutually agree to dividing India in 1947. I shudder to think of the innumerable internal wars we would have been fighting otherwise within ourselves. It is a wishful thought to think that India and Pakistan will unite once again. A few languages are same but there official language is Urdu different from ours. Why should an independent Pakistan merge with India and lose its identity is beyond me.

rambabu wrote:

Sir, will you please ask Mr. Gulati to come to the forum after he has posted his post and express his opinions too. It further enriches the discussion. Sorry for taking liberty.

As Gulati has given thankyou on your post, I hope he will take note of your advice. He is a very intelligent and informed person. I am sure he will enrich the site.  I hope to meet him at a meeting on first November inYouth hostel Agra ina conference on 'Vikalp' (alternative).  

 

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

rambabu wrote:

Sir, will you please ask Mr. Gulati to come to the forum after he has posted his post and express his opinions too. It further enriches the discussion. Sorry for taking liberty.

As Gulati has given thankyou on your post, I hope he will take note of your advice. He is a very intelligent and informed person. I am sure he will enrich the site.  I hope to meet him at a meeting on first November inYouth hostel Agra ina conference on 'Vikalp' (alternative).

 

Yes sir. Mr. Gulati has thanked me after your telling to participate in the discussions.

 He has given a vivid account of unification of India and Pakistan. And each aspect has been supported by examples like Cultural exchanges that took place in the past.

His intelligence is clearly visible in his simple but effective lingo.

And coming back to the subject, I would like to state that Unification of India is not possible in the present political scenario in India. And you know the policies and aims of the ruling party are revolving around Hindu Rashtra.

 

 

It is no use blaming the Britishers alone for partition. It is a myth that Hindu and Muslim lived in harmony before the British Rule.Yes,the rulers did exploit to the hilt the extant discord and conflicts not only between Hindu and Muslim but also among feuding kings and kingdoms .This context needs adequate understanding and appreciation. The demand for Pakistan is grounded in the fact that after ruling the major part of Hindustan oppressively for centuries the Muslim leaders grew paranoid in the rise of power of Hindus under British Rule.

The British have to be credited with the fact that they for the first time brought under their control the then undivided India and thus gave a geographical and political definition to it. Otherwise there would have been multiple countries which would have emerged from the numerable kingdoms that existed. Having come under one rule both Hindus and Muslims then indirectly and directly started carving out space for their religious controls which resulted in partition. It was inevitable and should be accepted as such without blaming anyone. It was history in action. These very reasons will not permit India and Pakistan uniting again.

Sir

I still beg to differ. It is true that credit goes to the British for taking control of hundreds of the small kingdoms and defining the geographical boundry of the country but while granting freedom and partition they had granted liberty to those kingdoms to exercise their option to join any of the two countries. Since I belong to the family who had the brunt of the partition and had to migrate to India, having been stick to our religion, I had to say that the seeds of partition were laid by the British and some of the Muslim leaders were used for that cause.In our native village, there was nothing so ugly between Hindu and muslim families there.

Indian Muslims are not foreigner to this country - they or their forefathers were forced to convert into Islam by the muslim aggressors. Many muslim families living in Bharat have respect and observe Hindu festivals alike. Similarly, those muslim families who have migrated to Pakistan but having some links with their relatives in Bharat remain interested in our festivals. Muslims living in this sub-continent have similar living styles. The differences if any are not indigenous. I understand that unification is difficult but it is not impossible if both countries continue cultural exchanges and it can get boost if Pakistan Government may understand the ground reality of their people. Unification can solve a number of problems in this sub-continent and we can work over that.

@Gulati : I fully appreciate your sentiments as you belong to the population which got uprooted due to partition. I also accept the fact that large percent of Muslims in the sub-  continent are converts from Hinduism, either out of choice or force and thus are closely related to the ethos of undivided India. This was a contributory reason for both communities living cordially since long. However we are talking of today's times. There is a significant section of our population which wants India to become a Hindu country just like Pakistan is an Islamic country.

The ill treatment of minorities in Pakistan, reducing there share from 12%  in 1947 to less than 2% today is used as a weapon by these forces. Also secularism is blamed for giving minorities more preference by these groups. 

Pakistan has now traveled a long distance and become a nuclear power. Why should it lose its identity by merging with India. These are romanticised dreams which will never get fulfilled. However on a cultural front personal contacts can always take place. Unification is a very very distant dream perhaps not worth chasing.

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

I do contribute to your views. This a fact that the  seeds of partition  are laid by the British. In this process they used a few Muslim Leaders. Regarding the religious tolerance both Muslims and Hindus living in some of  those areas had set an example.  My friends' Great grand father shared his fond experiences and passed on to the next generations. And I came to know about them. This I had stated in my earlier responses.

Let's see the things in the real perspective about Political scenario in Modern India. You know how it is trying its best to establish the concept of Hindu Rashtrra. In these conditions unification is not only difficult, but also impossible.

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

Musrf Parvez, Ex president of Pakistan accepted in his one interview that Laden, Jawahir is our hero and Laskar is our creation. Now what is left to prove that Pakistan is mother land of terror and terrorist.

Such wishy-washy thoughts completely betray ignorance the harder realities which surround Indo-Pak relationship.These two countries have virtually drifted away to two poles in terms of ideology, political architecture and even culture.Pakistan is a failed state with its military establishment and feudal lords developing a permanent vested interest in anti-Indiaism to begin with to emerge as the greatest distabilising threat to world peace and security.How mere cultural exchanges can bridge this yawning chasm in perceptions is beyond my comprehension.

anil wrote:

Musrf Parvez, Ex president of Pakistan accepted in his one interview that Laden, Jawahir is our hero and Laskar is our creation. Now what is left to prove that Pakistan is mother land of terror and terrorist.

Exactly. Both the countries had reached a point of no return. The provocative firings across the border and giving shelter to Dawood Ibrahim prove that Unification of India and Pakistan is mere wishful thinking. Here is the proof.that Pakistan is still protecting Terrorists like Dawood Imrahim

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/dawood-ibrahim-leaked-tapes-karachi-pakistan/1/409047.html

 

 

 

Lopamudra wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

I agree, hoping and wishing for a unified Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is a distant dream and just that, a dream. People have moved a long way apart and no one wants the union to happen and it is not even feasible and practical. So all we should hope and for and work for is something on the lines of European Union, existing peacefully along with others and not generally interfering in each other's internal affairs. But that too is something that only India can try and achieve, hoping that to happen from other two is again impossible.