MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

Air Force especially it's Chiefs for accepting neglect by government and not making noise even after retirement. Chinese economy is today 6 to 7 times larger than Indian economy and at thst level producing defence items is logical.

The Chiefs of the IAF right from Arjan Singh downwards are equally culpable, but one fact does stand out that Indians historically do not want to fight. China was way behind India which had a steel plant in 1949, while not even a bicycle was made in China.  There is thus no excuse for this neglect and somehow we fritter energy in things like caste etc. Now to cry that China economy is bigger has no meaning. We could have emulated China.

 

It is high time to think about the security of the country setting aside all the unproductive talk. It is our country and it is our security that will be at stake if we do not care about the Army. The urgent issue to be addressed is strengthening the Army, especially in the present scenario of ISIS and several terrorist outfits are spreading like wild fire all over the world.

 

It is amazing to read the posts of an ex service man that the only victory was in 1971 and for that also he has an excuse. China has grown large because of America who transfered their labor industry to it precisely because it was a low wage totalirian society where wages would remain low and US customers would get cheap products. US has transfered a lot of its knowledge outsourcing at cheap rates to India and few other countries. Each country grows on the talent it possesses. You are very pesimistic about India and it's leaders and surprisingly about its army also. Every time you give unrelated examples from abroad for Indians to follow. Have faith in your country person's. India today is second largest economy on PPP basis inspite of Gandhi, Nehru, Muslims, caste problems, secularists, JNU etc. whom you vehemently loathe. 

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Indias defence budget has always been smaller compared to other countries even Pakistan spends on its military upkeep...It was increased modestly  after BJP came into power and it has again been increased slightly this year. However, I was reading that over the years even that modest allocation was not utilised fully by the previous governments ( will try to provide a link when I find the article). No wonder our poor army personnel are so badly equipped . One should admire the courage and the patriotism of our people and armed forces who join and render their services inspite of these short comings.

It may be a good idea to send the whole lot of our politicians who beat their chest about patriotism on a compulsory military training for a year before they join politics..

The congress is to blame for  many things and Nehru was responsible for surrendering the leadership of Asia to China. During his time Dr Rajendra Prasad made a mockery by a ludicrous statement that the army be disbanded ( In 1955). Nehru was always scared of a military coup and downgraded the army. Even later Congress leaders never realised importance of military. Only Modi government appears to be serious.

Incidentally Kargill and 65 war at best were a draw only. Only the victory in 71 is worth talking about, but that was also as the Pak had just 0ne squadron and 3 division in East. Pakistan miscalculated on US support, which was not forthcoming as  Indira invoked the security pact with Russia.

 

In fact small gains made in the 1965 war were given away during the Tashkent agreement, god knows why? We lost many more soldiers than Pakistan and many more artileries and tanks than them , so it was definitely not a win..

usha manohar wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Indias defence budget has always been smaller compared to other countries even Pakistan spends on its military upkeep...It was increased modestly  after BJP came into power and it has again been increased slightly this year. However, I was reading that over the years even that modest allocation was not utilised fully by the previous governments ( will try to provide a link when I find the article). No wonder our poor army personnel are so badly equipped . One should admire the courage and the patriotism of our people and armed forces who join and render their services inspite of these short comings.

It may be a good idea to send the whole lot of our politicians who beat their chest about patriotism on a compulsory military training for a year before they join politics..

The congress is to blame for  many things and Nehru was responsible for surrendering the leadership of Asia to China. During his time Dr Rajendra Prasad made a mockery by a ludicrous statement that the army be disbanded ( In 1955). Nehru was always scared of a military coup and downgraded the army. Even later Congress leaders never realised importance of military. Only Modi government appears to be serious.

Incidentally Kargill and 65 war at best were a draw only. Only the victory in 71 is worth talking about, but that was also as the Pak had just 0ne squadron and 3 division in East. Pakistan miscalculated on US support, which was not forthcoming as  Indira invoked the security pact with Russia.

 

In fact small gains made in the 1965 war were given away during the Tashkent agreement, god knows why? We lost many more soldiers than Pakistan and many more artileries and tanks than them , so it was definitely not a win..

True...how can a win be a win if we give away our own territories back to the enemy. But some people simply refuse to accept the truth, they find it to bitter to swallow it.

MG all you write here is right not only Airforce Navy and Army are also much behind from China. for it our system is responsible. China is bigger economy than India because have not democracy like India. It is latest example that how Jat agitation Paralayis whole north India. But remember on thing that armature is must to face war but, war is always fight with jeal and bravery of forces. Indian forces proved it many times. 

anil wrote:

MG all you write here is right not only Airforce Navy and Army are also much behind from China. for it our system is responsible. China is bigger economy than India because have not democracy like India. It is latest example that how Jat agitation Paralayis whole north India. But remember on thing that armature is must to face war but, war is always fight with jeal and bravery of forces. Indian forces proved it many times. 

 

There is no doubt of the bravery of Indian forces. In fact during British rule Indian army was finest fighting machine in Asia. Unfortunately Nehru and Congress never gave it priority, it deserved.

MG Singh wrote:

anil wrote:

MG all you write here is right not only Airforce Navy and Army are also much behind from China. for it our system is responsible. China is bigger economy than India because have not democracy like India. It is latest example that how Jat agitation Paralayis whole north India. But remember on thing that armature is must to face war but, war is always fight with jeal and bravery of forces. Indian forces proved it many times. 

 

There is no doubt of the bravery of Indian forces. In fact during British rule Indian army was finest fighting machine in Asia. Unfortunately Nehru and Congress never gave it priority, it deserved.

Yes you are right I read one Biography of Nehru ji, indeed he had wrong perception that no one attack of India and he was also wants to establish himself and International leader, so he spend most of his time on this agenda.

 

MG Singh wrote:

anil wrote:

MG all you write here is right not only Airforce Navy and Army are also much behind from China. for it our system is responsible. China is bigger economy than India because have not democracy like India. It is latest example that how Jat agitation Paralayis whole north India. But remember on thing that armature is must to face war but, war is always fight with jeal and bravery of forces. Indian forces proved it many times. 

 

There is no doubt of the bravery of Indian forces. In fact during British rule Indian army was finest fighting machine in Asia. Unfortunately Nehru and Congress never gave it priority, it deserved.

 

I fully agree with you. It's not only negligence of army, a plethora of issues related to this country like irrigation were set aside by Nehru. The same negligence was carried out by all his kith who ruled this country for two decades. Nehru and his dynasty were the bane on this country.

 

MG Singh wrote:

anil wrote:

MG all you write here is right not only Airforce Navy and Army are also much behind from China. for it our system is responsible. China is bigger economy than India because have not democracy like India. It is latest example that how Jat agitation Paralayis whole north India. But remember on thing that armature is must to face war but, war is always fight with jeal and bravery of forces. Indian forces proved it many times. 

 

There is no doubt of the bravery of Indian forces. In fact during British rule Indian army was finest fighting machine in Asia. Unfortunately Nehru and Congress never gave it priority, it deserved.

 

The problem with Nehru was that he was a dreamer without any practical approaches..India had got its freedom and he had become the leader and he was busy consolidating his position first rather than concentrate on what needs to be done immediately.

I wonder how much time is being unproductively spent by many members in blaming Nehru and his descendents. Even if one were to agree with the solidly biased opinions made without basis and research and on hearsay what is being gained. Nehru led India when it was at its lowest point in economy and he or anyone in his place could not have made India a military power . Today we are the largest armaments buyers in the world because our economy is able to bear the expense and yet the infiltrators  walk in. That should be the issue. How to make India stronger should be debated. Nehru bashing is not going to lead anywhere except making some babus and singhs happy again and again.