usha manohar wrote:

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

rambabu wrote:

vijay wrote:

The thread initiator had written that Indira Gandhi had scrapped the OROP in 1973. @Gulshan says it was because of third pay commission abolishing the then prevailing system of pension calculation that the need for OROP arose in 1973. I tend to agree with Gulshanji's views as it is the correct position. I feel the references provided by @Rambabu and @Usha are not correct for which they are in no way responsible. Web based information portals are many times not reliable as they are not authenticated. My reason for pointing it out is to set the record straight as otherwise wrong information goes through. There was no OROP in 1973 and thus it could not have been scrapped. 

Is there any basis for your info that there was no OROP in 1973?

 

I an a retired Defence employee. I was involved in pay fixation of 1973 pay commission report. Up to 1973, the army soldiers did not have any graded pay scales. Their pay was fixed according to chart showing pay on basis of lenghth of service and rank.  This ensured that even if some body is promoted late, he would get the same pay as another promoted earlier but having same length of service. Similarly pension was fixed. The third c pay commission introduced pay scales. The pension is based on average emoluments in the last ten months. The pay commissions revise pay and pension in such a way that new comers gain more. So the old ones are relative losers. It is hence the system at fault and no individual including Indira Gandhi. It is not possible to give link as traditionally, all information about defence even pay scales are considered secret and the literature/ books are not available in market unlike civil books. 

So in your opinion, this link and the Koshyari committee report has no relevance ??? And as the head of the nation, how is it that Indira Gandhi becomes blameless, that is news to me ! Is this something happens in a Congress led government because I see the same people blaming Modi all saffron deeds !!!

‘One Rank One Pension’ more widely known by its acronym OROP, until 1973, was the basis for deciding pension of Indian Armed Forces Personnel [1] In 1973, in the wake ofThird Central Pay Commission (3CPC), when Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister, and Jagjivan Ram was Defense Minister, the Indian National Congress Government, “took ex-parte decision against the One Rank One Pension formula”. One Rank One Pension (OROP) since then has become a contentious issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koshyari_Committee_Report_On_Grant_Of_One_Rank_One_Pension

The report does not contradict me.  I just mentioned that prior to 1973, the pay of soldiers as well pension were based on table according to rank and length of service. So there was already one rank one poension before 1.1.1973.  AQfter implementation of pay commission report 1973, there were pay scales and pension based on average emoluments. So the anamolies began.  But the fauklt lies with Third pay commission and not Indira Gandhi.  Even though the third pay commission ended one rank one pension, there were overall improvements.   

 

chinmoymukherjee wrote:I think the decision taken by this government is as illogical as the demand made by some retired army officers.How can one demand pension of an amount which he did not earn! With all my love and respect to them,I can't justify their demands.They are well paid with liberal perks and subsidies even after retirement. I apprehend this might have opened Pandora's box with similar demands coming up from other sections of government sectors.

sir,there is truth in what you say. The other organizatuions especuallypara military forces can also make similar demands. Civil pensioners can also. But there is one difference. Civilians reture at age of sixty years. The army persons retire in many cases as early as 35 years.  Their life span is not less than civilian counter parts. To some extent, pay commission at end of every ten years revises pension also. Moreover there is additioal pension of 20% at 80 years, 35% at 85 years and so on. At 100 years, the pension is increased 100%.   It is   a just demand that a pensioner retiring early should not get less than that of another pensioner who retires later ar same rank with same amount of service.  It appears that the army pesons are still not fully satisfied. They want revision every year wgereas  govt. has agreed to revise every five years. There is another point. Most army persons retiring at young age are reenployed in civil departments. Then either their army service is counted in civil or they get salary in addition to pension. In such cases, on retirement from civil, they get two pensions- one army and another civil. My uncle also got two pensions- one army as Subedar clerk and another as retired civil employee.  On the whole, army pesnioners are not so neglected as is being made out.  

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

rambabu wrote:

vijay wrote:

The thread initiator had written that Indira Gandhi had scrapped the OROP in 1973. @Gulshan says it was because of third pay commission abolishing the then prevailing system of pension calculation that the need for OROP arose in 1973. I tend to agree with Gulshanji's views as it is the correct position. I feel the references provided by @Rambabu and @Usha are not correct for which they are in no way responsible. Web based information portals are many times not reliable as they are not authenticated. My reason for pointing it out is to set the record straight as otherwise wrong information goes through. There was no OROP in 1973 and thus it could not have been scrapped. 

Is there any basis for your info that there was no OROP in 1973?

 

I an a retired Defence employee. I was involved in pay fixation of 1973 pay commission report. Up to 1973, the army soldiers did not have any graded pay scales. Their pay was fixed according to chart showing pay on basis of lenghth of service and rank.  This ensured that even if some body is promoted late, he would get the same pay as another promoted earlier but having same length of service. Similarly pension was fixed. The third c pay commission introduced pay scales. The pension is based on average emoluments in the last ten months. The pay commissions revise pay and pension in such a way that new comers gain more. So the old ones are relative losers. It is hence the system at fault and no individual including Indira Gandhi. It is not possible to give link as traditionally, all information about defence even pay scales are considered secret and the literature/ books are not available in market unlike civil books. 

So in your opinion, this link and the Koshyari committee report has no relevance ??? And as the head of the nation, how is it that Indira Gandhi becomes blameless, that is news to me ! Is this something happens in a Congress led government because I see the same people blaming Modi all saffron deeds !!!

‘One Rank One Pension’ more widely known by its acronym OROP, until 1973, was the basis for deciding pension of Indian Armed Forces Personnel [1] In 1973, in the wake ofThird Central Pay Commission (3CPC), when Indira Gandhi was Prime Minister, and Jagjivan Ram was Defense Minister, the Indian National Congress Government, “took ex-parte decision against the One Rank One Pension formula”. One Rank One Pension (OROP) since then has become a contentious issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koshyari_Committee_Report_On_Grant_Of_One_Rank_One_Pension

The report does not contradict me.  I just mentioned that prior to 1973, the pay of soldiers as well pension were based on table according to rank and length of service. So there was already one rank one poension before 1.1.1973.  AQfter implementation of pay commission report 1973, there were pay scales and pension based on average emoluments. So the anamolies began.  But the fauklt lies with Third pay commission and not Indira Gandhi.  Even though the third pay commission ended one rank one pension, there were overall improvements.   

 

 

You are contradicting yourself...Either way according to many links and articles it is a fact that OROP was very much n existence until 1973 when Indira Gandhi and her team decided to scrap it and now rightly or wrongly it has been restored and as Chinmoy points out this may probably lead to some more demands that are unjustified, we can only wait and watch what the outcome would be !

chinmoymukherjee has raised a very valid point. It is true that the armed forces are taken good care by all governments incl Indira Gandhi's government. They get subsidised rations and also do not have to pay excised duty on goods they purchase from defence canteens. Also they get life long liqour from canteens  at cheap rates. A good number of them get jobs after retirement in view of them being a disciplined and well trained force. It is generally the jawans who face adjustment problems upon retiring at an early age. I am not at all against army personnel getting all these emoluments. They should be taken care off. But in the run uo to OROP a picture is being presented of grave injustice to them which is not true. They get pensions which  increase every year due to DA revisions. Most of them by the time they reach their seventies get pensions which are higher than their last pay at time of retirement. How many retirees from the private sector who generally buy annuities have this facility. If other service persons demand OROP what is wrong. We the tax payers will go on bearing. 

vijay wrote:

chinmoymukherjee has raised a very valid point. It is true that the armed forces are taken good care by all governments incl Indira Gandhi's government. They get subsidised rations and also do not have to pay excised duty on goods they purchase from defence canteens. Also they get life long liqour from canteens  at cheap rates. A good number of them get jobs after retirement in view of them being a disciplined and well trained force. It is generally the jawans who face adjustment problems upon retiring at an early age. I am not at all against army personnel getting all these emoluments. They should be taken care off. But in the run uo to OROP a picture is being presented of grave injustice to them which is not true. They get pensions which  increase every year due to DA revisions. Most of them by the time they reach their seventies get pensions which are higher than their last pay at time of retirement. How many retirees from the private sector who generally buy annuities have this facility. If other service persons demand OROP what is wrong. We the tax payers will go on bearing. 

The old pension scheme is mainly for armed forces. A new pension scheme has been introducedfor civilians from 2004. This is contributution based and managed/ controlled by PRDA.  The existing civilians pensioners getting pension from annual budget will gradually vanish and new will just get annuity (called pension) on theur own investments. So govt's liability will be only for army/ para military forces. Overall, the pensionary burden on civul pensioners will most probably be negligible around 2050.

Now on one rank one pension. The army persons are still not satisfiied. They have ended hunger strike but will continue agitation. Govt. have agreed to review the army pension every five years and in intervening period the anomaly would continue.  

 

@Gulshanji

You have given good account of yoursel to defend OROP but sadly overlooked the economic element of the argument. Modi committed the biggest blunder by making it one of his electoral planks.He has this dangerous susceptibility to cheap populism. One can readily recall his nonsensical electoral promises on black money.The issue should have been dealt with greater clarity of understanding,,wisdom and firmness.We can not afford to keep on whipping common people days on end to please our organized sector.I remember what once Jaitley remarked in the context of the role of Pay Commissions in creating fiscal instability in the country.He went as far as comparing it to the threat posed by Pakistan.What is,indeed,very very disturbing and carry dark portents for the democratic edifice in India,is that some misguided elements of ex-servicemen have launched an extremely dangerous political campaign.Very sorry state of our affairs,thanks once again to our political animals!!!

Modi does not make any blunders. he is a shrewd calculator of how to garner votes. by promising OROP to ex-servicemen he got their votes almost en bloc. His purpose is solved. The returns to the servicemen will be at the cost of the nation. By now it has become a perfect strategy. Before every election make huge promises and get votes from the electorate at the cost of state finances.If one cannot deliver there is always the irresponsible opposition party to be blamed. I do not know whether it is a form of collective bribery. Election commission should look into it. OROP issue is almost settled now.

In spite of getting a huge hike , many of them seem to have more demands ..

http://ex-servicemenwelfare.blogspot.in/2015/09/officers-and-lower-ranks-biggest-orop.html