It is not first time. I am agree that sloganeering is not a good thing. But secular means all religion are equal. But it does means that we are not following any religion.

An SP Candidate also refused to utter the words Vande Mataram as it is against Islam. What connection is there between Islam and Vande Mataram is beyond my thought.

epraneeth77 wrote:

An SP Candidate also refused to utter the words Vande Mataram as it is against Islam. What connection is there between Islam and Vande Mataram is beyond my thought.

Well, Vande mataram literally means a "salute to the mother" and the song is written as a tribute to our country whom we consider our mother. But the Muslims being what they are, against any form of idol worship consider it a sacrilege to even recognise and honor the country as our mother. It is indeed shameful on part of Indian Muslims since their origins are in the culture which considers everything from a cow to the land as our mother.

I think that kind of thought should be within the religion, but when we are living in a Country, it our duty to honor and respect the Country with the tradition that has been followed from decades.

From a secular point of view, even Muslims respect their mothers, love their mothers. In the same breath, they should love their Country. There is no religion manifestation in the words 'Vande Mataram'. It is only a mark of respect to the Country being uttered by saying 'salute to the mother'.

Even Muslims salute their mother, so why not Country, the view of the SP is rather narrow minded and has mixed religion with Country's love without much logic or thinking. Not every Muslim would behave that way, but these actions are a conspiracy to bring religion and Country's love to the point of clash of opinion which anyway is not related at all.

How low politicians stoop just to create chaos and clashes in the communities. Everyone should be against any such religious statements which have no coherence with the Country's love.

epraneeth77 wrote:

I think that kind of thought should be within the religion, but when we are living in a Country, it our duty to honor and respect the Country with the tradition that has been followed from decades.

From a secular point of view, even Muslims respect their mothers, love their mothers. In the same breath, they should love their Country. There is no religion manifestation in the words 'Vande Mataram'. It is only a mark of respect to the Country being uttered by saying 'salute to the mother'.

Even Muslims salute their mother, so why not Country, the view of the SP is rather narrow minded and has mixed religion with Country's love without much logic or thinking. Not every Muslim would behave that way, but these actions are a conspiracy to bring religion and Country's love to the point of clash of opinion which anyway is not related at all.

How low politicians stoop just to create chaos and clashes in the communities. Everyone should be against any such religious statements which have no coherence with the Country's love.

True... but on the contrary, I feel that this particular attitude of the community towards Vande Mataram, Yoga, etc. and their refusal to follow the protocols where these things are concerned are largely in their own minds and not merely fueled by political motives. I have many Muslim friends, have grown up with them studied with them, known some for so many long years now and in spite of our many discussions and futile debates, they still refuse to follow protocols! We visit their homes on eid, try to do what they do on occasions, but never once will they fold their hands in respect for icons of our faith. So now I have stopped being secular. In fact, I feel that our country is Hindu, our cultural roots go very very long back than of any other country's or religions, so why should we try to please any one! I personally feel that it is time that we stopped being secular as secular means only appeasing and pleasing that one community and undermining Hindus and Hinduism.

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

epraneeth77 wrote:

I think that kind of thought should be within the religion, but when we are living in a Country, it our duty to honor and respect the Country with the tradition that has been followed from decades.

From a secular point of view, even Muslims respect their mothers, love their mothers. In the same breath, they should love their Country. There is no religion manifestation in the words 'Vande Mataram'. It is only a mark of respect to the Country being uttered by saying 'salute to the mother'.

Even Muslims salute their mother, so why not Country, the view of the SP is rather narrow minded and has mixed religion with Country's love without much logic or thinking. Not every Muslim would behave that way, but these actions are a conspiracy to bring religion and Country's love to the point of clash of opinion which anyway is not related at all.

How low politicians stoop just to create chaos and clashes in the communities. Everyone should be against any such religious statements which have no coherence with the Country's love.

True... but on the contrary, I feel that this particular attitude of the community towards Vande Mataram, Yoga, etc. and their refusal to follow the protocols where these things are concerned are largely in their own minds and not merely fueled by political motives. I have many Muslim friends, have grown up with them studied with them, known some for so many long years now and in spite of our many discussions and futile debates, they still refuse to follow protocols! We visit their homes on eid, try to do what they do on occasions, but never once will they fold their hands in respect for icons of our faith. So now I have stopped being secular. In fact, I feel that our country is Hindu, our cultural roots go very very long back than of any other country's or religions, so why should we try to please any one! I personally feel that it is time that we stopped being secular as secular means only appeasing and pleasing that one community and undermining Hindus and Hinduism.

True, even one of my Christian friend does not accept that there is any other god than his god and that he does not believe that there is Maharabharata & Ramayana happened. He very well openly states that he follows his god, which is the only path. He, as a person is a good natured one though.

One of my other Christian friend during a conversation once also said that my God is different from yours! I was flabbergasted to receive such a response during the conversation.

Neverthless I am okay with their belief, as long as any person belief is strong enough and sticks to it completely it is okay.

As said, truly our Country is a Hindu Country and should proudly follow and dictate its traditions.

Why, even Saudi and Arab Countries respect and give preference to their religious roots by their policies and laws.

India should also therefore be completely pro Hindu, doesn't necessarily mean disregarding other religions, as Hindu religion itself means that it respects other religions and beliefs and not like other religions which does not accept other religions views.

Thank you for putting up your post as this was very necessary to be put and I could not see that point of view.

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

epraneeth77 wrote:

I think that kind of thought should be within the religion, but when we are living in a Country, it our duty to honor and respect the Country with the tradition that has been followed from decades.

From a secular point of view, even Muslims respect their mothers, love their mothers. In the same breath, they should love their Country. There is no religion manifestation in the words 'Vande Mataram'. It is only a mark of respect to the Country being uttered by saying 'salute to the mother'.

Even Muslims salute their mother, so why not Country, the view of the SP is rather narrow minded and has mixed religion with Country's love without much logic or thinking. Not every Muslim would behave that way, but these actions are a conspiracy to bring religion and Country's love to the point of clash of opinion which anyway is not related at all.

How low politicians stoop just to create chaos and clashes in the communities. Everyone should be against any such religious statements which have no coherence with the Country's love.

True... but on the contrary, I feel that this particular attitude of the community towards Vande Mataram, Yoga, etc. and their refusal to follow the protocols where these things are concerned are largely in their own minds and not merely fueled by political motives. I have many Muslim friends, have grown up with them studied with them, known some for so many long years now and in spite of our many discussions and futile debates, they still refuse to follow protocols! We visit their homes on eid, try to do what they do on occasions, but never once will they fold their hands in respect for icons of our faith. So now I have stopped being secular. In fact, I feel that our country is Hindu, our cultural roots go very very long back than of any other country's or religions, so why should we try to please any one! I personally feel that it is time that we stopped being secular as secular means only appeasing and pleasing that one community and undermining Hindus and Hinduism.

It is right that we Hindus are liberal for other religions. If it does  not situation of other religions in county may be like situation of other religion is Pakistan. Once I said to followers of Christian to read Gita, she said thinking about it is evil for us. A person who have not any respect for country and mother how they can respect others. 

I feel that once we say we are democratic with no state religion , we cannot impose anything on any one.  There is some controversy about Vande Mataram written by Bankim Chatterjee since ot was apparently wtityen in praisr of Queen.Victoria in honor of her arrival to India ad more importantly the last stanza glorifies Goddess Durga..

But Tagore noted that the first two stanzas (mentioned below) of the written five, had no religious connotations:

“I bow to thee, Mother,
richly watered, richly fruited,
cool with the winds of the south,
dark with the crops of the harvests,
the Mother!

Her nights rejoicing in the glory of
the moonlight, her bands clothed
beautifully with her trees in flowering
bloom, sweet of laughter, sweet of
speech, the Mother, giver of boons,
giver of bliss!”

The third and fourth stanzas are preoccupied with references to Goddess Kali: “Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen, with her hands that strike and her swords of sheen”. Now while a superficial reading of the song may not seem offensive, but the song equates Goddess Durga to the motherland. To the Muslim community that follows the monotheistic religion of Islam and does not worship Hindu goddesses, paying this form of homage to a country through reference to a Hindu deity figured to be problematic.

usha manohar wrote:

I feel that once we say we are democratic with no state religion , we cannot impose anything on any one.  There is some controversy about Vande Mataram written by Bankim Chatterjee since ot was apparently wtityen in praisr of Queen.Victoria in honor of her arrival to India ad more importantly the last stanza glorifies Goddess Durga..

But Tagore noted that the first two stanzas (mentioned below) of the written five, had no religious connotations:

“I bow to thee, Mother,
richly watered, richly fruited,
cool with the winds of the south,
dark with the crops of the harvests,
the Mother!

Her nights rejoicing in the glory of
the moonlight, her bands clothed
beautifully with her trees in flowering
bloom, sweet of laughter, sweet of
speech, the Mother, giver of boons,
giver of bliss!”

The third and fourth stanzas are preoccupied with references to Goddess Kali: “Thou art Durga, Lady and Queen, with her hands that strike and her swords of sheen”. Now while a superficial reading of the song may not seem offensive, but the song equates Goddess Durga to the motherland. To the Muslim community that follows the monotheistic religion of Islam and does not worship Hindu goddesses, paying this form of homage to a country through reference to a Hindu deity figured to be problematic.

And therein lies the hypocrisy in so called secularism. Hindus are supposed to be tolerant and expected to accept glorification of monsters like Tipu Sultan, Taimur etc. and are expected to look the other way when celebrities wish to name their children after them. Women rights are questioned when it comes to Hindu women following tradition of saree pallu over their heads, but when Muslim women wear hijab or burqas, it is supposed to be their personal choice. When Diwali or Holi comes, we are preached to conserve water, not pollute etc. while enormous amounts or firecrackers on New Year's eve go unnoticed, millions of goats and cattle slaughtered go unnoticed etc. So in democracy, it is the Hindu who is expected to tow the line the way these other communities and seculars want us to. But as a country with Hindu origins that date back to thousands of years, these people will absolutely refuse to obey and respect a simple gesture of uttering Vande Mataram! So so very sick this is!

Kalyani,  personally i would think that declaring India as a Hindu nation would be a great advantage to all because if we see, most developed nations have a state religion even when it is as low as just half way mark because that is tje majority. None of those countries are  undemocratic nor are they insular. If at all it can be done Here ,  only Mod/Amitshah Coyld do it ...i sincerely hope they think on those lines. 

The other day on a discussion site a lady from minority community from India had the audacity to tell someone that he should go to Nepal if he was so concerned about Hindus since India is a secular nation.