[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

I think that the best way is to provide free and compulsory education upto class VIII and free education in all classes. This will do away with financial issues. The government should give budgetary support to educational institutions.[/quote]

But free education upto VII does exist in government schools, but the quality of teachers is so low that a student of std IX or even X is hardly able to read from a book properly! Because for recruiting teachers also there is a lot of politics of reservation involved.

[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

It is quite ironical that because of the reservation policy, people have become so EAGER to flaunt their caste. So, now instead of having a caste-less society, people are fighting to create more divisions even within the caste just to get the benefits :angry: :angry: :angry:

Not just divisions within castes, some people even go to the extent of making false caste certificates just to get benefits and get caught at times ! It is one of the worst systems ever which has given rise to a lot of corruption and anti social activities..

Yeah many people indulge in this practice of making false caste certificate. And as long as certain section of the society continue getting benefit from quota system, I guess this practice will continue......

The practice will not only continue, but thrive and give rise to many other social evils...We get to hear more and more cases of honor killing like it was never before.My grand mother was saying that although inter caste marriages were frowned upon during her days,once it took place,people accepted and that was it,...but now the divide has become very deep rooted and man's thinking has become very narrow..

Its very unfortunate that the policy meant for the upliftment of the weaker and less privileged section of the society is now being misused and is a cause for many social evils.[/quote]

It is very seriously and methodically being misused. What's more unfortunate and sad is that the people who actually need the reservation are also the ones that are being kept away from getting those jobs.

A live example before me, a young man who comes from a very poor family comes to my husband occasionally for guidance. This young man is seriously interested in making a career as a drawing teacher and he indeed falls into the criteria for a drawing teacher in government school as he has all the required certificates, diplomas etc. But he is unable to get a proper and permanent job because higher govt. officials WHO also got their jobs by way of reservation are now giving jobs to people who can give them a certain amount, in his case he was asked for rs. 5 lakhs. Even though he belongs to their own caste, he won't get a job because he fails to produce that amount,. another guy who may not have his qualifications can get that job because he is able to produce that kind of money! :sick: When is the people who make reservations going to wake up??

I also believe that reservation is to be done only while posting, not for promotions. Promotions should be purely base on his years of experience and his hard work, nothing else!!!

[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

It is very much logical that a person who fits the required criteria and is capable of performing a specified job should be the one to get that job. But because of reservation, the worthy ones do not get those hobs because of the reserved quota, the people in reserved quota may have the degree required but are usually lacking in skills and expertise to perform the job and also the scores that are required are almost always below average for reserved seats. So who suffers from this all, people who are going to be serviced by such candidates. This is the reason for severe degradation of quality of teachers in schools or colleges. Many teachers who come from reserved quota are not even able to stand confidently before their students and teach them coherently. What will the students learn???

In a society like ours, it is going to extremely difficult to abolish caste system, but remove the reservations from jobs. Whoever fits the bill, he should get it, which ever caste he or she belongs to doesn't matter!![/quote]

I am reminded of an article which I read in a national paper many many years back. During the entrance test for the MBBS candidates conducted in Madhya Pradesh that year, the number of candidates from schedule caste quota were far below the number of seats reserved for them. One of the candidates scored so poorly that after totaling up the negative marking and everything, he scored -16. Though I don't remember much detail now, but I still remember the question that was raised in the paper that if that candidate is selected as the number of seats under their quota were still vacant, what would happen to the patients treated by him? I hope such nightmare never happens!!

The union government and other parties are going to amend constitution for promotion to SC/ST in government services with a view to render supreme court judgment ineffective.

What else is this if not vote bank politics. Why reservation in promotion to those who are already employed. why can't they wait their turn for promotion along with others?

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/scst-quota-bill-govt-may-amend-constitution/284296-37.html

Amending law for reservation in promotion is not an easy task. even the amendment can be challenged. So, government is readying for tight rope legal battle.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Promotion-quotas-Govt-readies-for-legal-tightrope/articleshow/15610158.cms

[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

I think that the best way is to provide free and compulsory education upto class VIII and free education in all classes. This will do away with financial issues. The government should give budgetary support to educational institutions.

But free education upto VII does exist in government schools, but the quality of teachers is so low that a student of std IX or even X is hardly able to read from a book properly! Because for recruiting teachers also there is a lot of politics of reservation involved.[/quote]

This is not about free education on mass level but to the deserving ones to the highest level. As long as they deserve to get it.

[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

I think that the best way is to provide free and compulsory education upto class VIII and free education in all classes. This will do away with financial issues. The government should give budgetary support to educational institutions.

But free education upto VII does exist in government schools, but the quality of teachers is so low that a student of std IX or even X is hardly able to read from a book properly! Because for recruiting teachers also there is a lot of politics of reservation involved.

This is not about free education on mass level but to the deserving ones to the highest level. As long as they deserve to get it.[/quote]

I believe that there should be free and compulsory education to all up to class V or VIII. Beyond that this should be free to the deserving up to highest level.

[quote]usha manohar wrote:
Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:
gulshan kumar ajmani wrote:
There must not be reservation anywhere except in trains. This is just queue system. It is okay to give everyone best opportunity for education since birth. But it is anti national to ignore merit. and promote inefficiency.

I agree! After we gained independence, India was struggling with class biases and reservation in education and even employment was necessary to bring backward classes into mainstream. But now after 65 years, those same conditions do not remain, now it is imperative that merit alone be the sole criteria hence all kinds of reservation, except in trains, be abolished. Only then can we achieve healthy growth in all sectors.

I think it is already too late to abolish it, in fact it has become deep rooted and spreading its tentacles to religion as well, with state governments more than eager to bring in more reservations...You know the general category is a mere 36% with the rest being reserved for various castes,tribes,political sufferers,MLA quota,political quota ,minorities quota etc etc. A couple of decades earlier apparently the reservation was just 21% of the total seats, so we can see where things are going :dry: :unsure:

Even if reservation is unavoidable, the facility should be given once only and not at every stage. If one has got an entry in govt job by dint of reservation, there is no reason why he be given more opportunity second or third time by way of promotion also.

but does it really work. My personal experience is that merit is never favored even in places where skill is actually needed. I have some friends working in the University of Pune and my elder brother-in-law is principal of a renowned engineering college in Nashik, also affiliated to University of Pune and what we hear from them all are nothing short of horror. In such an esteemed educational organization, Brahmins are purposely shunned and not given promotions, those who still stick to their jobs valiantly go through planned torture and harassment at all stages! :sick: Same is the case with other government jobs, now the truth is no Brahmin girl or boy ever attempts to secure a government job, I tried once I had to give up!! :angry:

What I feel that reservation should be at education level in shape of financial help. The one who deserves should compete with the best in the field and once he gets a job with his own competency and qualification he should be treated at par without any priorities or out of turn promotions.
Are you trying to remove cast system or increase it?

I think that the best way is to provide free and compulsory education upto class VIII and free education in all classes. This will do away with financial issues. The government should give budgetary support to educational institutions.

But free education upto VII does exist in government schools, but the quality of teachers is so low that a student of std IX or even X is hardly able to read from a book properly! Because for recruiting teachers also there is a lot of politics of reservation involved.

This is not about free education on mass level but to the deserving ones to the highest level. As long as they deserve to get it.

I believe that there should be free and compulsory education to all up to class V or VIII. Beyond that this should be free to the deserving up to highest level.[/quote]

Actually this is all about reservation and promotion therefore if they have to give them any priority this should be at the education level only, not beyond that.