Arunima Singh wrote:

I hold a different opinion here. I am of the thought that no party or individual is above nation be it Modi, Congress or BJP. There is no leader in this country who has left a legacy without mistakes or weakness and blunders. But things have to be weighed and seen in a larger picture. SO is of PVNarsimha Rao. But I still hold the view that he did very well as PM. If we go so much with idealistic views we will have no option to vote for .

Now Indian democracy is a dynamic and vibrant one. 

I feel that when you criticize a leader, do come up with the goods that he has done. 

Many people are writing that Modi will fail and seeing the results of these 3 states they have a sddist pleasure too that their prediciton is going right way. All of a sudden Rahul seems mature to them in all Rafale debates in Parliament though he is still fumbling with data and goes on and on like a tape recorder. His tape drama was another big step of maturity for these people who are singing praises for him all of a sudden after bashing him as Pappu for long.

There are articles written criticizing him with perceptions build around Rafale and his extremism and intolerance ( which just comes when ever BJP is in power, the same people are tolerant in other regime). They do nothing but play with psych of people. And the irony is that they have no better suggestion but to leave voters confused. When they criticize him, they do not give data for his work done in last 4 years or applaud him for his role internationally.

We are not importing Putin or Obama for elections here. We have options in front of us and we have to choose. Most of this anti Modii sentiment might have huge effect on election but if see logically is nothing other than...Anybody but not Modi. It is clueless. They know what they are standing against but are not sure what they are standing for. If Modi looses ( and many in India and around world wish for),  a part has to go on these people who are building up perception.

Now another classic is ...demand like a candidate like Nilkeini or Raghuramrajan would have been best?...Yes they would have been but the question is Are they in race??

It is like sitting in Dhaba where you have option of Chole bhature and Dal tadka and you demand for Pizza. That is not in menu. And the best part is one person of Indian origin sitting in foreign land coming and making mockery of this dhaba consumer, telling him all bad about the dishes available to him and leaving him confused. And this foreign settled fellow leaves with a remark that I am happy and fortunate to have a pizza in my foreign country. 

So what good has he done by putting his intellectual cap and criticizing all in elite tone and leaving voters with no option. He could have done it constructively and helped the ignored voters by giving him data and making him aware of data and figures. If his intellectual talks empower him, they make sense. But most of these intellectual talks go for a saddist pleasure..You know India is doomed, Has no leader, No future....blah blah.

Excellent  post Arunima ! You have brought out all the relevant points . The most laudable achievement of PVN Rao who was not from the family and not a family favorite either , was his capability of turning India into an open economy which credit is given by the congeess party to Rajeev Gandhi who just took some half hearted socialistic measures that did not amount to much . As far as corruption goes , Rajeev Gandhi did much more but because he was well protected by his party who were all willing to look the other way ..

usha manohar wrote:

Arunima Singh wrote:

I hold a different opinion here. I am of the thought that no party or individual is above nation be it Modi, Congress or BJP. There is no leader in this country who has left a legacy without mistakes or weakness and blunders. But things have to be weighed and seen in a larger picture. SO is of PVNarsimha Rao. But I still hold the view that he did very well as PM. If we go so much with idealistic views we will have no option to vote for .

Now Indian democracy is a dynamic and vibrant one. 

I feel that when you criticize a leader, do come up with the goods that he has done. 

Many people are writing that Modi will fail and seeing the results of these 3 states they have a sddist pleasure too that their prediciton is going right way. All of a sudden Rahul seems mature to them in all Rafale debates in Parliament though he is still fumbling with data and goes on and on like a tape recorder. His tape drama was another big step of maturity for these people who are singing praises for him all of a sudden after bashing him as Pappu for long.

There are articles written criticizing him with perceptions build around Rafale and his extremism and intolerance ( which just comes when ever BJP is in power, the same people are tolerant in other regime). They do nothing but play with psych of people. And the irony is that they have no better suggestion but to leave voters confused. When they criticize him, they do not give data for his work done in last 4 years or applaud him for his role internationally.

We are not importing Putin or Obama for elections here. We have options in front of us and we have to choose. Most of this anti Modii sentiment might have huge effect on election but if see logically is nothing other than...Anybody but not Modi. It is clueless. They know what they are standing against but are not sure what they are standing for. If Modi looses ( and many in India and around world wish for),  a part has to go on these people who are building up perception.

Now another classic is ...demand like a candidate like Nilkeini or Raghuramrajan would have been best?...Yes they would have been but the question is Are they in race??

It is like sitting in Dhaba where you have option of Chole bhature and Dal tadka and you demand for Pizza. That is not in menu. And the best part is one person of Indian origin sitting in foreign land coming and making mockery of this dhaba consumer, telling him all bad about the dishes available to him and leaving him confused. And this foreign settled fellow leaves with a remark that I am happy and fortunate to have a pizza in my foreign country. 

So what good has he done by putting his intellectual cap and criticizing all in elite tone and leaving voters with no option. He could have done it constructively and helped the ignored voters by giving him data and making him aware of data and figures. If his intellectual talks empower him, they make sense. But most of these intellectual talks go for a saddist pleasure..You know India is doomed, Has no leader, No future....blah blah.

Excellent  post Arunima ! You have brought out all the relevant points . The most laudable achievement of PVN Rao who was not from the family and not a family favorite either , was his capability of turning India into an open economy which credit is given by the congeess party to Rajeev Gandhi who just took some half hearted socialistic measures that did not amount to much . As far as corruption goes , Rajeev Gandhi did much more but because he was well protected by his party who were all willing to look the other way ..

My My, what pent-up emotions!. Criticizing me for the sake of criticizing is not going to help. You have to answer each point I have raised. Maybe you can answer teh questions on the Rafale deal, which even Modi has not been able to answer. You may also be justified that Narasimha Rao gave a bribe of some 30 crores just to remain in power. This is savvy? Modi is going to do the same thing. he will be much short of a majority and the money from the Rafale deal is going to be the game changer. Wait and watch. If he had done all the good work 18,000 farmers would not have committed suicide in MP- a state ruled by BJP for 15 years. Ipso facto by what you have written you will also be a supporter of the UP police taking an oath to save teh cow. Lynchings that didn't happen in India have started, the genie is out and Modi and the BJP will have to answer to history. Whichever government or party now come to power, this will continue. Lastly, in a desperate measure, he has given 10% seats to higher caste poor. This government is perpetuating caste division in an age when the word should be a meritocracy. WEll, one mans meat is another's poison. I wish you best in your endeavor to support the BJP. My last word is that this party is fueling the fire even in Sabarimala temple case and fanning the flames against the entry of women in the temple. Best of luck, but it will not stop me from writing the truth as I do on so many sites.

Dear Madam phrases like the one written below must be avoided."And this foreign settled fellow leaves with a remark that I am happy and fortunate to have a pizza in my foreign country. 

So what good has he done by putting his intellectual cap and criticizing all in elite tone and leaving voters with no option". A debate should have no personal attacks.

@ MGSinghI have not made any personal remarks or criticized anyone. I have put my thoughts and one can agree or disagree.

As far as the foreign settled writers are concerned, the remark can go to many of those writers and you need not take it personally because I did not think of you while writing this as I have not come across any of your article on this topic anywhere. 

I have not justified PVNR for bribery but applauded him for the good that he has done.

Modi has done quite well in 4 years and still more could have been done. Few things were not handled well and could have been done better. I have written it again and again. As for farmers are concerned, their condition has been deplorable since last 71 years and all government have to be equally blamed and I never gave this current government a clean chit on that.

But I do feel proud of him on the following 

We have International Yoga Day...credit this man.
India is batting for permanent membership in UN...credit this man for his leadership.
We are one of the countries deciding the future of renewable energy and environment...credit this man.
We are having first time extradition case in 26 years of our history and that is Mallya..See his influence in bringing about the changes in International law of frauders...credit him.
Indo-Israel relations ..credit him.
International isolation of Pakistan on terrorism...credit him.
Dokhlam...credit him.
Our position in Asia on all forums...credit him.
Surgical strike..credit our Army and his support to them.

Now back home.

Varanasi his constituency has a huge Muslim population too. I am a native of that place and I have seen remarkable progress there in last 4 years after he got selected. When he took up projects for Ganga and cleaning of city, he gave and did equal to do justice to Muslims there who are mainly into handlooms and sarees.
now coming back home, true that country is not made in last 5 years but never the development was so rapid. In a country like India where divisive poitics and corruption prevails, no change can be so swift and without challenges.
Open defecation..no leader talked about it. He did. Isn't it an issue?? He did and we have more and more states becoming free of it. He has done enough for lower strata and not only done populist politics of giving freebies and waive loans. Connecting people to banks, giving them LPG, the black market of LPG in country now is nil. Demonetization hurt small business. But was there an alternative to it? Some damages are unavoidable to bring a big change. But there has to be a jolt.

My maid is a Muslim and she has LPG and bank account.

Inflation is the best controlled. We have not taken any loan from World bank in last 4 years and bridged our fiscal deficit.

Well these are data from reliable resource where more people of this country go for.I might be wrong on some and can be corrected.

Now your question on Sabrimala.. I have not read much about it and do not have much things to talk about. I would not jump my gun without much study. But still it is more of faith than gender equality. There are 13-15 temples in India where men are not allowed. You can google and find it. Moreover, there is post on Boddunan where I have written my views. And I condemn the violence by political fuelling. One of the panelist on one debates in a news channel said that the temple was open for female till 90's and then closed. I am not aware of such thing. If it is so then is definitely wrong but if it has been age old tradtion then we have to look at it with different perspective.

Now on Rafale, I was satiisified with all the data and facts provided by defense minister on the floor of parliament. It answered all questions with facts and I was happy with the answer. Be it price, number , procedure, she answered. Many are not and it is their view. 

Now the latest on quota. I welcome it. I might differ. Yes I would have been happy if the 10% was compensated in the already available quota as it only suffocates the general class. But I welcome because economically deprived ones are the only ones who should get it and irrespective of any other thing. Quota in our country has become like an issue..who will bell the cat?? Remember how Nitin Gadkari faced the heat or RSS faced the heat when they supported only economically poor to get quota. And I hold a point that no reservation for a long run is good. I wish that any government coud come up with the suggestion that only one generation can prevail it. 

I have tried to give answer to all the points that you raised. You have all rights to agree or disagree. 

 I have all right to be happy and proud that I have a PM for the first time who has got so much of International recognition. Also the only Indian to be counted in corruptionless leaders of world and that too on No1. At least I can feel that pride and I would have felt the same happiness if it was any other leader irrespective of the party. And like many Indians, I would many more effective and influential politicians to come in future be it ruling party or in opposition.

Arunima Singh wrote:

@ MGSinghI have not made any personal remarks or criticized anyone. I have put my thoughts and one can agree or disagree.

As far as the foreign settled writers are concerned, the remark can go to many of those writers and you need not take it personally because I did not think of you while writing this as I have not come across any of your article on this topic anywhere. 

I have not justified PVNR for bribery but applauded him for the good that he has done.

Modi has done quite well in 4 years and still more could have been done. Few things were not handled well and could have been done better. I have written it again and again. As for farmers are concerned, their condition has been deplorable since last 71 years and all government have to be equally blamed and I never gave this current government a clean chit on that.

But I do feel proud of him on the following 

We have International Yoga Day...credit this man.
India is batting for permanent membership in UN...credit this man for his leadership.
We are one of the countries deciding the future of renewable energy and environment...credit this man.
We are having first time extradition case in 26 years of our history and that is Mallya..See his influence in bringing about the changes in International law of frauders...credit him.
Indo-Israel relations ..credit him.
International isolation of Pakistan on terrorism...credit him.
Dokhlam...credit him.
Our position in Asia on all forums...credit him.
Surgical strike..credit our Army and his support to them.

Now back home.

Varanasi his constituency has a huge Muslim population too. I am a native of that place and I have seen remarkable progress there in last 4 years after he got selected. When he took up projects for Ganga and cleaning of city, he gave and did equal to do justice to Muslims there who are mainly into handlooms and sarees.
now coming back home, true that country is not made in last 5 years but never the development was so rapid. In a country like India where divisive poitics and corruption prevails, no change can be so swift and without challenges.
Open defecation..no leader talked about it. He did. Isn't it an issue?? He did and we have more and more states becoming free of it. He has done enough for lower strata and not only done populist politics of giving freebies and waive loans. Connecting people to banks, giving them LPG, the black market of LPG in country now is nil. Demonetization hurt small business. But was there an alternative to it? Some damages are unavoidable to bring a big change. But there has to be a jolt.

My maid is a Muslim and she has LPG and bank account.

Inflation is the best controlled. We have not taken any loan from World bank in last 4 years and bridged our fiscal deficit.

Well these are data from reliable resource where more people of this country go for.I might be wrong on some and can be corrected.

Now your question on Sabrimala.. I have not read much about it and do not have much things to talk about. I would not jump my gun without much study. But still it is more of faith than gender equality. There are 13-15 temples in India where men are not allowed. You can google and find it. Moreover, there is post on Boddunan where I have written my views. And I condemn the violence by political fuelling. One of the panelist on one debates in a news channel said that the temple was open for female till 90's and then closed. I am not aware of such thing. If it is so then is definitely wrong but if it has been age old tradtion then we have to look at it with different perspective.

Now on Rafale, I was satiisified with all the data and facts provided by defense minister on the floor of parliament. It answered all questions with facts and I was happy with the answer. Be it price, number , procedure, she answered. Many are not and it is their view. 

Now the latest on quota. I welcome it. I might differ. Yes I would have been happy if the 10% was compensated in the already available quota as it only suffocates the general class. But I welcome because economically deprived ones are the only ones who should get it and irrespective of any other thing. Quota in our country has become like an issue..who will bell the cat?? Remember how Nitin Gadkari faced the heat or RSS faced the heat when they supported only economically poor to get quota. And I hold a point that no reservation for a long run is good. I wish that any government coud come up with the suggestion that only one generation can prevail it. 

I have tried to give answer to all the points that you raised. You have all rights to agree or disagree. 

 I have all right to be happy and proud that I have a PM for the first time who has got so much of International recognition. Also the only Indian to be counted in corruptionless leaders of world and that too on No1. At least I can feel that pride and I would have felt the same happiness if it was any other leader irrespective of the party. And like many Indians, I would many more effective and influential politicians to come in future be it ruling party or in opposition.

Wonderful. You write very true. Now some one list work of 10 years of Sonia Gandhi's government.

Excellent posts Arunima, both the first and the second.

I would like to answer some questions with respect to Sabarimala

"Now your question on Sabrimala.. I have not read much about it and do not have much things to talk about. I would not jump my gun without much study. But still it is more of faith than gender equality. There are 13-15 temples in India where men are not allowed. You can google and find it. Moreover, there is post on Boddunan where I have written my views. And I condemn the violence by political fuelling. One of the panelist on one debates in a news channel said that the temple was open for female till 90's and then closed. I am not aware of such thing. If it is so then is definitely wrong but if it has been age old tradtion then we have to look at it with different perspective."

I have read a lot about it and have heard a number of things from my Malayali friends, many of whom are ardent devotees of Lord Ayyappa with some of them making the yearly pilgrimage to Sabarimala for many years. The people who are pushing and doing anything possible to help women of ages 10-50 gain entry into the temple are majorly of little or no faith. The first two women Rehan Fathima and the lather commi lady who petitioned in the court for entry into temple, both are non-HIndus, I wrote this earlier too, but no one responded to that post. Rehana Fathima is a Muslim model turned B-grade actress who has a number of nonsensical, bold adult movies to her credit owing to which has been discredited by her caste people. Bindu is a communist Christian woman. Both these ladies have absolutely no faith and belong to the leftist sickular cadre. I did not see or read about them protesting for the rights of Muslim women's entry to mosque or letting them breathe freely without burqa and hijab or against triple talaq, halala etc. Why have they tuned on only towards Sabarimala? The ugly truth is that the entire skirmish is planned methodically and funded by the Christian outsiders, most likely Vatican. Put Sabarimala on Google maps and you will see that the hill temple is surrounded by more than 10 churches which own lands all around it. These churches are places were mass conversions to Christianity have been taking place for decades and decades. Sabarimala , Lord Ayyappa and the trails of faith and confidence the temple casts over thousands of Hindu devotees visiting it each year stands to threaten the activity of conversions. Also, a prominent hotelier who is a communist and sickular has been trying to acquire these lands to be turned into some sort of Holy Christian resort is so unable to buy these lands.

And Mr. MG singh, claims that all this controversy has been fueled by BJP??? WHAT ABOUT THE UGLY TRUTH MR. SINGH? You are in too much hurry nowadays to spew venom against Modi, BJP and everything that is related to Hinduism that I am beginning to think that you are some sort of convert in guise. When you are questioning practices in Hinduism, why are you not raising similar voices again equal malpractices in Muslims and Christians?? Have you read about godmen raping women and duping people of their money and wealth? 90% of those Godmen are all Muslims. Pedophilia is a god-dictated practice which Prophet Mohammed himself indulged in. Christian churches have been raping nuns and little children for hundreds of years. Nuns in Catholic convents flog themselves to near-death daily as a part of their religious rituals. As a world traveler, you must be aware of these facts, why aren't you speaking about it even once? Are you aware of the fact that rape as practice started only after the Muslims invaded? Why aren't you speaking about this? Do answer some of these questions too if you can? 

As regards to Rafale deal, I am guessing from your posts that even you are not clear about it!

As far as the movie is concerned, now after High Court gave the clearance, the plea has gone to Supreme Court. Lets us wait and watch what is in store..

Thank You Kalyani for your input on Sabrimala. I also came to know from few of my friends in Bangalore that not all men go to yearly pilgrimage. They have to go through a tough purification of 45 days. Since menstruation is considered as a taboo for any religious rituals ( I think it is in all religion), these women in this age group can not go through that holy purification. I think is more of faith issue. When I first heard of it , I thought it to be a patriarchal practice but then it is not. 

Arunima Singh wrote:

As far as the movie is concerned, now after High Court gave the clearance, the plea has gone to Supreme Court. Lets us wait and watch what is in store..

Thank You Kalyani for your input on Sabrimala. I also came to know from few of my friends in Bangalore that not all men go to yearly pilgrimage. They have to go through a tough purification of 45 days. Since menstruation is considered as a taboo for any religious rituals ( I think it is in all religion), these women in this age group can not go through that holy purification. I think is more of faith issue. When I first heard of it , I thought it to be a patriarchal practice but then it is not. 

True Arunima, not all men go but yet they do whatever rituals are required and so on and so forth. Also I want to suggest once correction. The hype around Sabarimala and women is all focused on the menstruation aspect which is NOT the case. The fact is that Ayyappa is a celibate deity who has vowed to stay away from women in their reproductive phase and hence the age group between 10-50 abstain from entering temple while younger girls and older women do enter it freely. This is a tradition that hs been ongoing for centuries and has been brought into focus wrongly now.

Another point that I must raise here is that: WHY only Hinduism is criticised for taboo around menstruation? Is anyone here aware that menstruation is actually revered and celebrated especially in North India? A big ceremony is held with relatives and friends invited when a girl first achieves her first cycle? This used to be celebrated all over country but is now restricted only to the south, that too is dwindling.

Also, my Christian friends do not enter a church when they are menstruating, they are not allowed to do so by their religion. My Muslim friends are anyway barred from entering a mosque irrespective of whether they are menstruating or not. So why the controversy only about Hindus? I strongly feel that this is just another factor that is being used against us and we must recognise the threat against our culture and religion and put a stop to all this nonsense.

Actually it is only the old testament which spoke about forbidding women from entering the church while menstruating. There is no such rule now ..

Pope Gregory addressed this question in a letter to St Augustine of Canterbury 1400 years ago

A WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE FORBIDDEN to enter the Church during the times of her monthly period; for the workings of nature cannot be considered sinful, and it is not right that she should be refused admittance since her condition is beyond her control. We know that the woman who suffered an issue of blood, humbly approaching behind our Lord, touched the hem of his robe and was at once healed of her sickness. If, therefore, the woman was right to touch our Lord's robe, why may one who endures the workings of nature not be permitted to enter the church of God? And if it is objected that the woman in the Gospels was compelled by disease while these latter are bound by custom, then remember, my brother, that everything that we endure in this mortal body through the infirmity of its nature is justly ordained by God since the fall of man. 

usha manohar wrote:

Actually it is only the old testament which spoke about forbidding women from entering the church while menstruating. There is no such rule now ..

Pope Gregory addressed this question in a letter to St Augustine of Canterbury 1400 years ago

A WOMAN SHOULD NOT BE FORBIDDEN to enter the Church during the times of her monthly period; for the workings of nature cannot be considered sinful, and it is not right that she should be refused admittance since her condition is beyond her control. We know that the woman who suffered an issue of blood, humbly approaching behind our Lord, touched the hem of his robe and was at once healed of her sickness. If, therefore, the woman was right to touch our Lord's robe, why may one who endures the workings of nature not be permitted to enter the church of God? And if it is objected that the woman in the Gospels was compelled by disease while these latter are bound by custom, then remember, my brother, that everything that we endure in this mortal body through the infirmity of its nature is justly ordained by God since the fall of man. 

Even if this is a fact, I know that my Christian friends even today do not visit their church during those days!