Is pakistan paying back India in the same coin for its breakup of Pakistan in Kashmir

It's OK,MG. I too respect you for your overall knowledge in Army related issues. What I said was about Kashmir is from the platform speeches of the prominent Ministers and from the highest echelons of the Government and from the Media. Nothing beyond this, I know about Kashmir issue. Remember, being a commoner and with the limited  tools at my disposal, I put forward my responses in the form of my opinions. I think every participant in these Discussion forms will have the same resources.

The present state government is utter failure in J&K. BJP has failed to provide any new ideas and PDP is caught in its own web of playing to the gallery including the separstis. It is clear that the separatists are calling the shots. Any solution is going to be difficult to hammer as too many stakeholders have emerged. Indian political parties can only fight to win elections after that they do not know how to fight except verbal fights. For the first time a feeling of losing Kashmir Seems to be real.

There is an elected government in Kashmir and the situation is not what it was in the early late eighties/ early nineties when it was at its peak. No doubt things have been manipulated by our grand old party and the opposition in Kashmir by giving all kinds of conflicting and bordering on anti national statements further fuelling the situation. The army is doing its level best , but gets criticized even after laying down tbeir lives ..there is no need to jump the gun and day that now for the first time .. when we all know the situation has always been bad since Independence and the leaders let it stay that way because an impending war us always good for making money..

What are you trying to say is not clear. When will you grow out of grand old party fixation. It is always the present which counts. Trying to trivilize the 43 days curfew situation shows lack of understanding of the real situation on ground. where are the great initiatives that were promised to solve the problem?

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

MG, my Pal, here is a layman's doubt. Who will handover the State to the Army and dismiss PDP and BJP Governments in Kashmir ? Is it in the hands of the Government or the President ? Kashmir has an elected Government.

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

I tend to agree with your views that unless very strong steps are taken now things are bound to go totally out of hand ..After all the sacrifice that the armed forces have done it is only fair that we finish the issue one way or the other ..

For everything that this government is not able to tackle @usha has a single point agenda of blaming secularists. I doubt she understands the meaning of secularism because then she wil not understand communalism meaning also. Kashmir is suffering because of apathy of elected governments and the increasing alienation of the local population. 70 pesons have lost their lives. Least that can be done is stop blame game and search for solutions.

usha manohar wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

I tend to agree with your views that unless very strong steps are taken now things are bound to go totally out of hand ..After all the sacrifice that the armed forces have done it is only fair that we finish the issue one way or the other ..

@Usha. this is a very valid comment. I wish others could also see this viewpoint. Its a do and die situation and army is ready, must have guts only the political leadership 

I have been saying it all along that if civilian government cannot tackle the issue let the army deal We have had enough of this nonsense.  Governments have given them enough freebies so far but if they want a plebiscite based on majority let them have it but are their friends ready to accept the same in rest of the country? 

rambabu wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

MG, my Pal, here is a layman's doubt. Who will handover the State to the Army and dismiss PDP and BJP Governments in Kashmir ? Is it in the hands of the Government or the President ? Kashmir has an elected Government.

I think if governor suggest president rule, than central government can send it to president with their recommendation  and president can dismiss present government and impose president rule.

anil wrote:

rambabu wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

MG, my Pal, here is a layman's doubt. Who will handover the State to the Army and dismiss PDP and BJP Governments in Kashmir ? Is it in the hands of the Government or the President ? Kashmir has an elected Government.

I think if governor suggest president rule, than central government can send it to president with their recommendation  and president can dismiss present government and impose president rule.

yes, there is a way out asvpresidents rule can be imposed but who will bell the cat? 

MG Singh wrote:

anil wrote:

rambabu wrote:

MG Singh wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

No question of trivialising , Since we know the reason for the curfew and it had to be taken until the anti nationals and seperatists toed the democratic line, which is what happens when there is sedition and anti national activities. The saddest part is the kind of double talk by people like Omar Abdullah, Digvijay Singh and the so called secular people who  probably feel what they have done so far towards messing up the valley is not enough, more needs to be done to destabilise it ..

Things are pretty bad and the army cannot fight a perpetual battle for 20/30 years. Remember the mightiest army in the world the USA lost in Vietnam as the Russians in Afghanistan. The need is a swift action and not a prolonged war of attrition. For this there is no choice but to hand over the state to army and dismiss PDP and BJP government. Things are serious and Modi is not having the strategic picture. Talking rhetoric has no place.

MG, my Pal, here is a layman's doubt. Who will handover the State to the Army and dismiss PDP and BJP Governments in Kashmir ? Is it in the hands of the Government or the President ? Kashmir has an elected Government.

I think if governor suggest president rule, than central government can send it to president with their recommendation  and president can dismiss present government and impose president rule.

yes, there is a way out asvpresidents rule can be imposed but who will bell the cat? 

Who is ruling the Country ? If the ruling Party is really serious about ending the Kashmir problem, it has to take the initiative and see that President's rule is imposed.

No ruling party enjoying majority will willingly give away power to enforce President's rule.

There is something positive happening with the promise of jobs for Kashmiri youngsters since unemployment is rampant and the youngsters have too much time on their hands and also poverty makes them get into unlawful and criminal activities. This is an excellent initiative by Modi government..

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/modi-government-naqvi-kashmir-employment-skill-development/1/748370.html

Definitely. Modi Government is trying its best to solve Kashmir Problem. His initiative to prep 50,000 kashmiri Youths for employment. After training these youths who are mostly school dropouts will be provided with Jobs. So far, earlier governments made only Promises. But Modi succeeded in fulfilling the promises to the Youths.

Alice in wonderland!

Can't imagine rambabu in the role of Alice... or was that me ???

However, any initiative being taken is to be appreciated than no initiative being taken . Once Kashmiris realise that the present situation is largely their own making, things would change for the better..

Mehbooba as CM has realised the problem has its origin in Pakistan. Her comment that a 15 year old boy going with a stone to an army camp was not going to buy milk is telling. Inititatives are ok but to break the back of militancy remember what gen NE Win said. He said army is there to kill and crush. It's not a picnic. The student movement in Burma was crushed. One cannot run with hare and hunt with the hound. The bullet has to be bitten.