Can there be another division of India on religious lines?

I see only two possibilities

1- division in near future

2- further divisions in future 

I don't care what the so-called "Dharm Nipeksh" say because they have their own interests above the interests of this country.

Many years ago I read somewhere that in its history, the India of today and Pakistan and Bangladesh together were united for a maximum period of 120 years even when the religion was only Hinduism. Now we are in different times and India today is a pluralistic society.  It is the Constitution which unites and not religion. That religion is not a uniting force has been repeatedly demonstrated in region after region like Europe, West Asia. In these areas countries with singular religion are facing wars with each other. Maximum Muslims and Christians have been killed by themselves. Nearer home we saw recently how during Jat agitation non Jat Hindus were targeted or in Tamilnadu how upper caste persons brutally killed a lower caste person for marrying their woman. So religion is not and can not be a cementing factor. Modern times do give an opportunity to citizens irrespective of their religion, national;ity etc to come together and live happily as is demonstrated by USA. Keeping diverse elements together is a challenge and that is why the framers of our Constitution and leaders like Gandhi, Nehru, Patel, Azad stood tall despite many weaknesses. They were creators of an enabling atmosphere. However today an opposing ideology is gaining ground which wants to segment society for sake of votes, polarize sections for sake of domination, and so on. It also has supporters as any idea would have. What Jinnah said has no meaning today, the Supreme court is capable of overcoming such narrow minded forces and within Muslim community in India there is an upsurge to cleanse it of the very narrow views which make you afraid that India will be divided again. Indian people will not allow another division. The first was done by the British.

Jinnah and Sawarkar believed in two nation theory. Noted poet and philosopher Mohd. Iqbal was the ideologue of the theory that Muslims are nation. But his philosophy of Muslim nation was not just a geographical concept.  For him all Muslims wherever they are form nation. The Muslims worldwide are one community or nation called 'Ummah'  Jinnah was persuaded constantly by Iqbal to play an active role in creating an Islamic state.  Jinnah is just one side of the theocratic state notion. In fact, Hindu Maha Sabha and R.S.S. are the main players in this mischief. They sowed seeds of hatred. In fact, Jinnah was himself not an orthodox Muslim. He was not aggressive but feared that Muslims in Hindu India would be reduced to second grade citizenship. This belief was not entirely unfounded. I heard that during British period, at Railway station, there were separate tumblers for tea. The tumbler used by Muslims would not be used by Hindus. So we had Hinduani tea and Musalmani tea.  Drinking water was also served to Muslims and lower Hindu caste persons through long bamboo pipe.

We must maintain secular ideals. I don't feel that Muslims need any further division. But the Hindu fanatics in name of so called Hindu Rashtra are creating circumstances for further division not only on religious basis but also on caste basis. Recent issues of Mahishasur worship and campaign against burning of Holka are pointers. All secular forces must unite and act fast to defeat the grand design of Hindutva forces to divide tha nation and force another divisions or divisions.  

In real terms, India was never ONE Nation for even 120 years as even during the reign of the mighty Aurangzeb, control over the Assam Kings and North East states was never there. It was only during the time of British rule that entire India was integrated. But here also the British allowed many independent states to flourish like Hyderabad, Patiala, Kashmir and Baroda. British only looked after defence and Foreign affairs. In case India was never a Historical entity  for 4000 yeasr, the chance that this artificial stitching will more likely to collapse.

The Chinese Institute of Strategic studies has forecast the imminent breakup of India. To say that the USA is a cohesive society is totally without foundation. My sister in law is an American and I have seen that at present there is a anti- Muslim wave in USA. No wonder even Ted Cruz is asking for seperate Police patrols for Muslim neighbourhoods. We lost earlier because of lack of unity among Hindus and also because of " tolerance". In this read the chapter on Hindus in " history of warfare" by Field Marshal Montogomery. This tolerance will be our doom. In fact I feel sad as me, my father and Grandfather served the Indian armed forces  for over a 100 years.

The only way India can survive for another 100 years is if the Hindus enforce discipline and the constitution like civil code et all. There can be no dissent , today they question the supreme court ,tomorrow they will question parliaments right to make laws for Muslims. It is  like the serpent rearing its head and allowed to rear higher. Incidentally Jinnah is valid today as none of his statements are rejected by Indian Muslims who see him as a great leader.

I will like to appraise my friends on a comment made by a highly educated minority memenber  who is my peer in another company. He said that Parliament in India is a Hindu parliament as in case Muslims were to get proper representation they should have at least 75-85 MPs.  they baarely have only a few.He asks  how can a predominent Hindu parliament make laws applicable to Muslims? Think friends !!!

One thing which many in India seen to be lacking is in self confidence including those who served for 3 generations  in the army incl. British army. If 100 crore Hindus are afraid of 20 odd crore Muslims then what can be done. Parliament and Supreme Courts have to do their duty. All will fall in line. The muslim mania of many is creating imaginary demons. Everything seems to be muslim centric. Even USA is to be judged by attitude of Trump towards muslims. Many have predicted break up of China as it's citizen want democracy sooner or later. Ok stop being a scare crow all the time and stop imaginary battles.

I have another fear. The minorities only need some degree of autonomy and freedom from interference in their affairs. Nothing else. If the fascist Hindu communal forces are not restrained and they go with their agenda, there will be disastrous results. 

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

Jinnah and Sawarkar believed in two nation theory. Noted poet and philosopher Mohd. Iqbal was the ideologue of the theory that Muslims are nation. But his philosophy of Muslim nation was not just a geographical concept.  For him all Muslims wherever they are form nation. The Muslims worldwide are one community or nation called 'Ummah'  Jinnah was persuaded constantly by Iqbal to play an active role in creating an Islamic state.  Jinnah is just one side of the theocratic state notion. In fact, Hindu Maha Sabha and R.S.S. are the main players in this mischief. They sowed seeds of hatred. In fact, Jinnah was himself not an orthodox Muslim. He was not aggressive but feared that Muslims in Hindu India would be reduced to second grade citizenship. This belief was not entirely unfounded. I heard that during British period, at Railway station, there were separate tumblers for tea. The tumbler used by Muslims would not be used by Hindus. So we had Hinduani tea and Musalmani tea.  Drinking water was also served to Muslims and lower Hindu caste persons through long bamboo pipe.

We must maintain secular ideals. I don't feel that Muslims need any further division. But the Hindu fanatics in name of so called Hindu Rashtra are creating circumstances for further division not only on religious basis but also on caste basis. Recent issues of Mahishasur worship and campaign against burning of Holka are pointers. All secular forces must unite and act fast to defeat the grand design of Hindutva forces to divide tha nation and force another divisions or divisions.  

So nice to have a discussion with you. Firstly how do you relate Hindutva with BJP and Sangh? Hindutava is defined as "

An ideology seeking to establish the hegemony of Hindus and the Hindu way of life."  This is not the monopoly of the BJP and any Hindu or resident of India can believe in it. I am a Sikh, but I find nothing objectionable in Hindutava. to keep calling Hindutava a fascist concept is something I cannot understand. In the USA and UK the constitution is based on Christian principles and all live there, same with Hindutava, which is akin to the old golden aage. Remember BJp is not a party that can bring Hindutava as it failed in all its election promises.

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

I have another fear. The minorities only need some degree of autonomy and freedom from interference in their affairs. Nothing else. If the fascist Hindu communal forces are not restrained and they go with their agenda, there will be disastrous results. 

I will remind you that 

The term Fascism was first used of the totalitarian right wing nationalist regime of Mussolini in Italy (1922–43); the regimes of the Nazi  in Germany.Fascism tends to include a belief in the supremacy of one national or ethenic  group> Where is it? I dont see in India  and no foreigner sees it also other than you and the Congress. Come man dont use words for the sake of using like Fascism etc.

vijay wrote:

One thing which many in India seen to be lacking is in self confidence including those who served for 3 generations  in the army incl. British army. If 100 crore Hindus are afraid of 20 odd crore Muslims then what can be done. Parliament and Supreme Courts have to do their duty. All will fall in line. The muslim mania of many is creating imaginary demons. Everything seems to be muslim centric. Even USA is to be judged by attitude of Trump towards muslims. Many have predicted break up of China as it's citizen want democracy sooner or later. Ok stop being a scare crow all the time and stop imaginary battles.

thank you Vijay, I enjoy a verbal and written joust with you. Bear in mind that only 100,000 Britishers controlled a population of 350 million and only about 50000 Muslims controlled 100 million Hindus. This was based on the axiom" fear is the Key". This  is a fact  and is brought out in Freedom at Midnight byLapaire and Indian history by Duff. So 100 cr can be controled by 20 cr easily as Hindus are divided by caste and creed. 

Congress with its warped policies and communal agenda has made sure that several Pakistans are ready to be formed all over the nation. Thankfully now we have a government with a vision and clarity of action and in time we can hope to have a nation where all are equal and have equal opportunities. However, I have my own doubts whether the communal party which is like a wounded tiger after losing power would let things remain peaceful, they have been going all out to spread lies and fabricated rumors simply to instil fear in the masses. But by now people of India should know better.

MG Singh wrote:

vijay wrote:

One thing which many in India seen to be lacking is in self confidence including those who served for 3 generations  in the army incl. British army. If 100 crore Hindus are afraid of 20 odd crore Muslims then what can be done. Parliament and Supreme Courts have to do their duty. All will fall in line. The muslim mania of many is creating imaginary demons. Everything seems to be muslim centric. Even USA is to be judged by attitude of Trump towards muslims. Many have predicted break up of China as it's citizen want democracy sooner or later. Ok stop being a scare crow all the time and stop imaginary battles.

thank you Vijay, I enjoy a verbal and written joust with you. Bear in mind that only 100,000 Britishers controlled a population of 350 million and only about 50000 Muslims controlled 100 million Hindus. This was based on the axiom" fear is the Key". This  is a fact  and is brought out in Freedom at Midnight byLapaire and Indian history by Duff. So 100 cr can be controled by 20 cr easily as Hindus are divided by caste and creed. 

The philosophy of non violence by Gandhiji was to remove fear of being controlled by violence in India. He succeeded to a large extent but some like you are still afraid. India of today is not India of yesteryear, it has moved for beyond pessimistic opinions about its future. I too enjoy verbal duels with you till you do not start shooting me but my views.

 

Some have questioned why Hindutva is related to RSS and BJP. What is wrong with Hindutva. Of course nothing wrong if you simply observe the rituals and lead life according to your religion. The issue arises when you attempt to dominate others nourishing false sense of superiority. You target not only religious minorities but also those who don't agree with your brand of aggressive Hindutva. You target also those who don't support your ideology. This is what Nazi and fascists stood for.  For Hitler, German race was pure Aryan and a master race who was fully justified to dominate and rule other races- subject races. To draw parallel, R.S.S. also believes in Hindu nation and considers non Hindus as well as dissenters as unworthy of citizenship. Recently, top BJP leader Subramaniam Swamy proposed that Muslims and other religious minorities be deprived of right to vote unless they accept that the mythological figures Rama and Krishna are their ancestors.

The RSS ideology is well expressed in the books 'Bunch of thoughts'  and 'we- our nationhood defined."  The R.S.S. and BJP have not so far disassociated themselves from these books written by M.S. Golwalkar. The occasional talk of harmony by some BJP leaders is clearly deceptive. The occasional liberal face of BJP or some times R.S.S. is deceptive.

However the minorities and the downtrodden will certainly not accept the hegemony of the communal fascist forces, who will prove just paper tigers. The support base of these fascist and communal forces is big business, Hindu clergy and professionals who are naturally timid by nature as well as exigencies of their business and profession.    

It will be interesting to read the following link:

http://ebharat.asia/article.php?id=8537

There were no attack on Hindus during so called Muslim period. Hindus and Muslims lived together peacefully. It is only the British who attempted to create division. 

It would be naive to conclude that there was absolutely no animosity between Hindus and Muslims. It was manageable and thecBritish sucvessfully divided us. Surprisingly there is no anger against the English who also crippled our economy completely.

MG Singh wrote:

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

Jinnah and Sawarkar believed in two nation theory. Noted poet and philosopher Mohd. Iqbal was the ideologue of the theory that Muslims are nation. But his philosophy of Muslim nation was not just a geographical concept.  For him all Muslims wherever they are form nation. The Muslims worldwide are one community or nation called 'Ummah'  Jinnah was persuaded constantly by Iqbal to play an active role in creating an Islamic state.  Jinnah is just one side of the theocratic state notion. In fact, Hindu Maha Sabha and R.S.S. are the main players in this mischief. They sowed seeds of hatred. In fact, Jinnah was himself not an orthodox Muslim. He was not aggressive but feared that Muslims in Hindu India would be reduced to second grade citizenship. This belief was not entirely unfounded. I heard that during British period, at Railway station, there were separate tumblers for tea. The tumbler used by Muslims would not be used by Hindus. So we had Hinduani tea and Musalmani tea.  Drinking water was also served to Muslims and lower Hindu caste persons through long bamboo pipe.

We must maintain secular ideals. I don't feel that Muslims need any further division. But the Hindu fanatics in name of so called Hindu Rashtra are creating circumstances for further division not only on religious basis but also on caste basis. Recent issues of Mahishasur worship and campaign against burning of Holka are pointers. All secular forces must unite and act fast to defeat the grand design of Hindutva forces to divide tha nation and force another divisions or divisions.  

So nice to have a discussion with you. Firstly how do you relate Hindutva with BJP and Sangh? Hindutava is defined as "

An ideology seeking to establish the hegemony of Hindus and the Hindu way of life."  This is not the monopoly of the BJP and any Hindu or resident of India can believe in it. I am a Sikh, but I find nothing objectionable in Hindutava. to keep calling Hindutava a fascist concept is something I cannot understand. In the USA and UK the constitution is based on Christian principles and all live there, same with Hindutava, which is akin to the old golden aage. Remember BJp is not a party that can bring Hindutava as it failed in all its election promises.

It is question is followers of BJP are only Hindu than what are followers of all other parties? Hindu is not a religion person who are living in this country are Hindu.

 

vijay wrote:

Many years ago I read somewhere that in its history, the India of today and Pakistan and Bangladesh together were united for a maximum period of 120 years even when the religion was only Hinduism. Now we are in different times and India today is a pluralistic society.  It is the Constitution which unites and not religion. That religion is not a uniting force has been repeatedly demonstrated in region after region like Europe, West Asia. In these areas countries with singular religion are facing wars with each other. Maximum Muslims and Christians have been killed by themselves. Nearer home we saw recently how during Jat agitation non Jat Hindus were targeted or in Tamilnadu how upper caste persons brutally killed a lower caste person for marrying their woman. So religion is not and can not be a cementing factor. Modern times do give an opportunity to citizens irrespective of their religion, national;ity etc to come together and live happily as is demonstrated by USA. Keeping diverse elements together is a challenge and that is why the framers of our Constitution and leaders like Gandhi, Nehru, Patel, Azad stood tall despite many weaknesses. They were creators of an enabling atmosphere. However today an opposing ideology is gaining ground which wants to segment society for sake of votes, polarize sections for sake of domination, and so on. It also has supporters as any idea would have. What Jinnah said has no meaning today, the Supreme court is capable of overcoming such narrow minded forces and within Muslim community in India there is an upsurge to cleanse it of the very narrow views which make you afraid that India will be divided again. Indian people will not allow another division. The first was done by the British.

I think equal opportunity is available for citizens of all religions. It is depends of the people how they exploit these. If our politician change their attitude we have not any problem of religion and cast.

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

Some have questioned why Hindutva is related to RSS and BJP. What is wrong with Hindutva. Of course nothing wrong if you simply observe the rituals and lead life according to your religion. The issue arises when you attempt to dominate others nourishing false sense of superiority. You target not only religious minorities but also those who don't agree with your brand of aggressive Hindutva. You target also those who don't support your ideology. This is what Nazi and fascists stood for.  For Hitler, German race was pure Aryan and a master race who was fully justified to dominate and rule other races- subject races. To draw parallel, R.S.S. also believes in Hindu nation and considers non Hindus as well as dissenters as unworthy of citizenship. Recently, top BJP leader Subramaniam Swamy proposed that Muslims and other religious minorities be deprived of right to vote unless they accept that the mythological figures Rama and Krishna are their ancestors.

The RSS ideology is well expressed in the books 'Bunch of thoughts'  and 'we- our nationhood defined."  The R.S.S. and BJP have not so far disassociated themselves from these books written by M.S. Golwalkar. The occasional talk of harmony by some BJP leaders is clearly deceptive. The occasional liberal face of BJP or some times R.S.S. is deceptive.

However the minorities and the downtrodden will certainly not accept the hegemony of the communal fascist forces, who will prove just paper tigers. The support base of these fascist and communal forces is big business, Hindu clergy and professionals who are naturally timid by nature as well as exigencies of their business and profession.    

It will be interesting to read the following link:

http://ebharat.asia/article.php?id=8537

There were no attack on Hindus during so called Muslim period. Hindus and Muslims lived together peacefully. It is only the British who attempted to create division. 

The supposed speech itself is a suspect, so it cannot even be taken as a yardstick by any means. This is a link that gives exactly what mughal rule did to Hindus. British on the other hand brought in many progressive reforms and left us alone after we got independence, that's why most Indians are soft on them.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/45331

usha manohar wrote:

Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:

Some have questioned why Hindutva is related to RSS and BJP. What is wrong with Hindutva. Of course nothing wrong if you simply observe the rituals and lead life according to your religion. The issue arises when you attempt to dominate others nourishing false sense of superiority. You target not only religious minorities but also those who don't agree with your brand of aggressive Hindutva. You target also those who don't support your ideology. This is what Nazi and fascists stood for.  For Hitler, German race was pure Aryan and a master race who was fully justified to dominate and rule other races- subject races. To draw parallel, R.S.S. also believes in Hindu nation and considers non Hindus as well as dissenters as unworthy of citizenship. Recently, top BJP leader Subramaniam Swamy proposed that Muslims and other religious minorities be deprived of right to vote unless they accept that the mythological figures Rama and Krishna are their ancestors.

The RSS ideology is well expressed in the books 'Bunch of thoughts'  and 'we- our nationhood defined."  The R.S.S. and BJP have not so far disassociated themselves from these books written by M.S. Golwalkar. The occasional talk of harmony by some BJP leaders is clearly deceptive. The occasional liberal face of BJP or some times R.S.S. is deceptive.

However the minorities and the downtrodden will certainly not accept the hegemony of the communal fascist forces, who will prove just paper tigers. The support base of these fascist and communal forces is big business, Hindu clergy and professionals who are naturally timid by nature as well as exigencies of their business and profession.    

It will be interesting to read the following link:

http://ebharat.asia/article.php?id=8537

There were no attack on Hindus during so called Muslim period. Hindus and Muslims lived together peacefully. It is only the British who attempted to create division. 

The supposed speech itself is a suspect, so it cannot even be taken as a yardstick by any means. This is a link that gives exactly what mughal rule did to Hindus. British on the other hand brought in many progressive reforms and left us alone after we got independence, that's why most Indians are soft on them.

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/45331

I think author of this article didn't read history of Punjab during Mugals period. Sacrifice of Guru Teg Bahadur and family of Guru Gobind Singh.

 

More on Aurangzeb rule. He demolished temples as well as mosques. But he also donated 'zagirs' to many temples as well. The matter is not simple. He might be tyrannical to the anti- empire. May be Govind Singh, Shivaji and some others were fighting the Mughal empire. Some temples as well as mosques could be den of anti- establishment elements. Otherwise why should he be kind to some. 

Also it is worth noticing that some like Mohd Gauri and Akbar issue coins with images of Hindu gods. 

http://ebharat.asia/article.php?id=8622

Aurangzeb was the first Mughal ruler who came under control of the Islamic religious elements and under their influence took many anti Hindu decisions like introduction of Jiziya tac on Hindus. Beheading of Guru Tegh Bahadur was a religion based decision. It was because of such decisions the Mughal empire started collapsing. The lesson we should draw is that when political deciioins are taken on basis of religion they will cause the downfall of the system/country. that is why in a pluralistic country like ours  the constitution should be the guiding factor and not any religion.