Does India need a spell of martial Law to set the ills of society and the republic right. ?

Martial law can be imposed as measure to contain some sort of unrest for a  limited period. There is no provision for Martial law in the the Indian constitution  Or make India as a  country of Dictatorship. Both cannot exist together.

 

chinmoymukherjee wrote:

Let me begin quoting Sir Winston Churchill-the

arch imperialist and no friend of India- in the 

context of granting independence that "Power

will go into the hands of rascals,rogues and 

freebooters......." He is not my favorite politician

but I can't help admiring his perspicacity of thoughts and clarity of vision when I look at the state of affairs of this nation more than sixty years down the line. Lord Wavell once maintained that India needs to be governed firmly or not governed at all. Netaji advocated it.We went for democracy which faintly resembles mobocracy with rights accepted as license to indulge in doing whatever we feel like.There are many failed states like West Bengal whose statehood should be put under animated suspension and a brief spell of such rule can be a pragmatic experimented.

Democracy in India is a farce. We have men like pappu Yadav well known gangsters and Jayalalitha ruling. Democracy and progress in India? I will die laughing on a bed of nails.

Bengal is terrible. I served for long periods there. The politucians destroyed that state which threw up a great leader like Bose.

Howsoever the democracy may make one feel frustrated it still is to be preferred to martial law. It is extremely surprising to read a member denounce democracy and progress in India in the terms only he can do. In democracy there are checks and balances , people have a voice, sooner or later , corrective measures get taken based on protest by affected. Under martial law only one man thinks about what is good for every body and they suppress opposition with iron hand.Only the most negative persons will believe that democracy has failed in India. The experiments of Pakistan with martial law are conveniently forgotten by @MGSingh and @Chimoy who even quotes colonial masters derogatory statements purposely made to denigrate Indians and make them feel inferior. Unfortunately many of us continue to suffer.

@ MG Singh ...Good points raised. Martial law is needed in India as a rot has set in. Nobody can clean the mess. Martial law will bring in discipline. Look what General Kemel Ataturk did for Turkey after the mess of the Caliphate.

 

I feel that Mustafa kemals kind of rule was not martial rule , just that there was one party rule and he was in power for 20 odd years...He also was the one who brought in reforms and modernised Turkey,Today Turkey is probably one of the least fundamentalist Islamic nations ..

 Good points raised. Martial law is needed in India as a rot has set in. Nobody can clean the mess. Martial law will bring in discipline. Look what General Kemel Ataturk did for Turkey after the mess of the Caliphate.

 

In fact we need a different Martial Law in India, we must hand over the law and order to army direct under home ministry of India (police working under army control). 

 

Is it a Democratic Martial law ? can you please elucidate this new kind of Martial law. I have my own doubts any kind of Martial law in a democratic set up is hazardous. Democracy and Martial law are poles apart.

 

@Vijay

You have missed the subtext and context  in which  I quoted Churchill.Let us not overwhelm ourselves by who said it , rather what  he said. How one would loved to see his arrogant doom prophecyy proved wrong but our rulers seem determined to prove each letter of his utterances right. Can you deny it? 

rambabu wrote:

Is it a Democratic Martial law ? can you please elucidate this new kind of Martial law. I have my own doubts any kind of Martial law in a democratic set up is hazardous. Democracy and Martial law are poles apart.

 

Call it what you like but we need strong hands to handle our bad behavior. Our politicians also are no different from uneducated masses doing what they like doing nothing but calling names to each others.  

 

suni51 wrote:

rambabu wrote:

Is it a Democratic Martial law ? can you please elucidate this new kind of Martial law. I have my own doubts any kind of Martial law in a democratic set up is hazardous. Democracy and Martial law are poles apart.

 

Call it what you like but we need strong hands to handle our bad behavior. Our politicians also are no different from uneducated masses doing what they like doing nothing but calling names to each others.  

 

It's OK. Instead of martial law, i feel it would be better to implement the existing Law and order in the strictest way. The fear of Punishment both in general public and the politicians should be injected literally in such a way any criminal / politician should shudder before committing a crime or utter nonsense.

 

 

usha manohar wrote:

@ MG Singh ...Good points raised. Martial law is needed in India as a rot has set in. Nobody can clean the mess. Martial law will bring in discipline. Look what General Kemel Ataturk did for Turkey after the mess of the Caliphate.

 

I feel that Mustafa kemals kind of rule was not martial rule , just that there was one party rule and he was in power for 20 odd years...He also was the one who brought in reforms and modernised Turkey,Today Turkey is probably one of the least fundamentalist Islamic nations ..

True...Usha and people have even more modern outlook than Indians, transgenders and others are treated with more kindness in Turkey than other countries probably, I have never been there so not very sure but books reflect a country's true nature. I have read some of the books from series known as Turkish Delight and they reflect the modern outlook quite well.

 The grass is always green on the other side. Half knowledge is still more dangerous. We have not lived under Martial Law and seen the suppression that occurs under it. For example we would not be able to have a forum like this under it. @Chnmoy pl understand the utterances of Churchill and company where made in the context of denying self rule to Indians and that is why such muck was thrown at us. How can their biased evaluation be taken as a yardstick for judging ourselves today when their purpose was to humiliate us. After all the democratically elected Communist and TMC governments have failed Bengal. The people should have voted with care as they do in most other States of India. Should we punish our own people by bringing Martial Law' Believe me in Bengal that will also fail the what. Turkey today has gone back to fundamentalism and in fact liberalism there is under attack. After repeated doses f Martial Law Pakistan has come back to democracy and civilian govt is trying hard to bring army under its control.

Why do we keep lamenting India as an half empty glass. Let us enjoy the half filled glass. We should be proud of the immense progress we have done in all spheres of progress in our country and it is democracy that has kept diverse India united unlike Pakistan which broke under Martial Law. Let us all bat for democracy and keep @MGSingh and @Chinmoy as twelfth  man in our team.(In good humour pl)

vijay wrote:

 The grass is always green on the other side. Half knowledge is still more dangerous. We have not lived under Martial Law and seen the suppression that occurs under it. For example we would not be able to have a forum like this under it. @Chnmoy pl understand the utterances of Churchill and company where made in the context of denying self rule to Indians and that is why such muck was thrown at us. How can their biased evaluation be taken as a yardstick for judging ourselves today when their purpose was to humiliate us. After all the democratically elected Communist and TMC governments have failed Bengal. The people should have voted with care as they do in most other States of India. Should we punish our own people by bringing Martial Law' Believe me in Bengal that will also fail the what. Turkey today has gone back to fundamentalism and in fact liberalism there is under attack. After repeated doses f Martial Law Pakistan has come back to democracy and civilian govt is trying hard to bring army under its control.

Why do we keep lamenting India as an half empty glass. Let us enjoy the half filled glass. We should be proud of the immense progress we have done in all spheres of progress in our country and it is democracy that has kept diverse India united unlike Pakistan which broke under Martial Law. Let us all bat for democracy and keep @MGSingh and @Chinmoy as twelfth  man in our team.(In good humour pl)

 

I will act as  the third umpire ( Ina lighter vein.)

 

rambabu wrote:

vijay wrote:

 The grass is always green on the other side. Half knowledge is still more dangerous. We have not lived under Martial Law and seen the suppression that occurs under it. For example we would not be able to have a forum like this under it. @Chnmoy pl understand the utterances of Churchill and company where made in the context of denying self rule to Indians and that is why such muck was thrown at us. How can their biased evaluation be taken as a yardstick for judging ourselves today when their purpose was to humiliate us. After all the democratically elected Communist and TMC governments have failed Bengal. The people should have voted with care as they do in most other States of India. Should we punish our own people by bringing Martial Law' Believe me in Bengal that will also fail the what. Turkey today has gone back to fundamentalism and in fact liberalism there is under attack. After repeated doses f Martial Law Pakistan has come back to democracy and civilian govt is trying hard to bring army under its control.

Why do we keep lamenting India as an half empty glass. Let us enjoy the half filled glass. We should be proud of the immense progress we have done in all spheres of progress in our country and it is democracy that has kept diverse India united unlike Pakistan which broke under Martial Law. Let us all bat for democracy and keep @MGSingh and @Chinmoy as twelfth  man in our team.(In good humour pl)

 

I will act as  the third umpire ( Ina lighter vein.)

 

Good one. I will be a spectator

 

 

Why are people so much aghast at the word Martial Law.? the fact is it is one  form of government and can be tried, for a short time. As I have written its like surgery and sometimes good may come of it. Coming to 12th  man , I like it because some players are going to get injured while batting against martial law and I will step in . ha ha !

vijay wrote:

rambabu wrote:

vijay wrote:

 The grass is always green on the other side. Half knowledge is still more dangerous. We have not lived under Martial Law and seen the suppression that occurs under it. For example we would not be able to have a forum like this under it. @Chnmoy pl understand the utterances of Churchill and company where made in the context of denying self rule to Indians and that is why such muck was thrown at us. How can their biased evaluation be taken as a yardstick for judging ourselves today when their purpose was to humiliate us. After all the democratically elected Communist and TMC governments have failed Bengal. The people should have voted with care as they do in most other States of India. Should we punish our own people by bringing Martial Law' Believe me in Bengal that will also fail the what. Turkey today has gone back to fundamentalism and in fact liberalism there is under attack. After repeated doses f Martial Law Pakistan has come back to democracy and civilian govt is trying hard to bring army under its control.

Why do we keep lamenting India as an half empty glass. Let us enjoy the half filled glass. We should be proud of the immense progress we have done in all spheres of progress in our country and it is democracy that has kept diverse India united unlike Pakistan which broke under Martial Law. Let us all bat for democracy and keep @MGSingh and @Chinmoy as twelfth  man in our team.(In good humour pl)

 

I will act as  the third umpire ( Ina lighter vein.)

 

Good one. I will be a spectator

 

Events in history wait for none. The situation in Italy with corruption and laid back attitude was so bad that the Fascists led by Mussolini were welcomed by the people in 1923. Who knows what will happen in India ? the way things are going and an ineffectual government  a future president may be forced to declare Martial law, to clean the Augean stables.

I am happy to be 12 th man. It will be fun as some players are going to get injured in a democracy and I will step in !!

 

 

 

Who is here advocating it as a replacement of democracy? Talking about context of self-rule and Churchill's comments I can say that Netaji's advocacy of a limited period of dictatorship might have been prompted by similar misgivings about our fitness to rule ourselves Was he denigrating Indians? Even Rajaji along with a few luminaries was opposed to the idea of going the whole hog.I remember vaguely a quote of J.B.Kripalini which I read in the Statesman when I was a school student which ran somewhat like:If I were in my youth today,I would burn this country! Thus he expressed his frustration when he was in his nineties after seeing the working of our democracy for a long time.I wonder what he would have said today!

chinmoymukherjee wrote:Who is here advocating it as a replacement of democracy? Talking about context of self-rule and Churchill's comments I can say that Netaji's advocacy of a limited period of dictatorship might have been prompted by similar misgivings about our fitness to rule ourselves Was he denigrating Indians? Even Rajaji along with a few luminaries was opposed to the idea of going the whole hog.I remember vaguely a quote of J.B.Kripalini which I read in the Statesman when I was a school student which ran somewhat like:If I were in my youth today,I would burn this country! Thus he expressed his frustration when he was in his nineties after seeing the working of our democracy for a long time.I wonder what he would have said today!

I agree, discussing and stating our views on the subject does not mean that things are going to change ...Many of the old eminent leaders would be turning in their graves when they see the present state of affairs..

@Usha Whatever I could comprehend from views expressed by most of us,there appears an ardent concern to protect our democracy from hoodlums,lumpens and political thugs which the present system and set of rulers are incapable of ridding.The recommendations of Cora committee on criminalization of politics have been gathering dust for decades and all political parties are mum on it. What do we in a situation like this?It is being speciously argued with Pakistan being touted as how disastrous military rule proved.What about Singapore. I am aware of the practical difficulties for martial law being in a country as diverse as India but we have got to address the most serious threats that Indian democracy faces.Mere eulogy or treating as a holy cow won't prevent its death!

chinmoymukherjee wrote:@Usha Whatever I could comprehend from views expressed by most of us,there appears an ardent concern to protect our democracy from hoodlums,lumpens and political thugs which the present system and set of rulers are incapable of ridding.The recommendations of Cora committee on criminalization of politics have been gathering dust for decades and all political parties are mum on it. What do we in a situation like this?It is being speciously argued with Pakistan being touted as how disastrous military rule proved.What about Singapore. I am aware of the practical difficulties for martial law being in a country as diverse as India but we have got to address the most serious threats that Indian democracy faces.Mere eulogy or treating as a holy cow won't prevent its death!

Singapore is one of the best ruled nations and the manner in which they are able to discipline and control the population is exemplery.Besides being clean it is also a city that has been marching forward and developing in all directions...I have visited the place every now and then since 1990 and can see how things have gone on become better...One of our eminent politicians from Karnataka after having spent a week in Singapore and Malaysia using tax payers money was boasting that he was sent there to study, so that they could make Bangalore another Singapore..Honestly does the man even know how to begin?

Some have posted comments about 'democratic martial law'.  It is also stated that there is some legal opinion that President may impose such law.  I understand that President can act only on advice of council of ministers headed by Prime minister of India. So if martial law is to be imposed, this will be only on advice of council of ministers. There is provision for emergency but not for martial law. In fact, this provision is not likely in other countries also. Martial law is established by way of military coup and suspension of constitution.  In Pakistan, martial law has been imposed from time ro time by way of milirary coup or revolt accompanied by forced control over Radio and television, arrest of top political government leaders etc. This is not thinkable in India, which is not a banana republic.  Some times, miliraey is used for facing internal disturbances and other calamities. This military use is known as 'aid to civil power'  for which civil authorities need to pay the army.  Even when army is deployed in some area, ultimate control vests in civil authorities.