Group Discussion Contest August2 to August 15

Is India really Independent?

The topic should raise sparks in the discussion in many ways,as I see it has.There are many who think that corruption and power has taken over the common man's voice,probably that's why we aren't really independent?
Or the prejudices prevail,maybe that's why its seems to be a myth.Or there are parties that demand true independence for survival,that could be the reason why we feel our country does not reflect true independence.

If I'm getting the opinions rightly so far,I would like to state that these thought are a sign that in out country independence exists and so does democracy.

People here have a choice to agree on things and disagree on the same.Which independent country is free of corruption? Or of prejudice? I don't see any independent country not battling these issues.Does that discredit the fact that we are independent.

Yes,we might not have good governance as mentioned by Gulshanji,but aren't we the people the power behind the government.Isn't this the nation that put ministers involved in corruption for CWG or the 2G Scam behind bars.Isn't this the same nation that has made the countrymen known for its fields of science,technology and research etc.Isn't this the nation who has changed the mindset of living conditions within,like girl education,opposing child marriages and genocides.

I also understand that there are a million facts to counter that the nation is grim and not progressing,but that doesn't meant we aren't independent.Not getting independence would mean having conditions similar to the ones in Egypt,Tunsania or Baharain.

We are very much independent,and we fail to accept it.We are independent to voice out,to pen down,to refuse bribes,to accept progress and I also agree it is difficult to do so,but it does not change the fact for independence of our country,and we have it.

We are observing 'Independence Day' on 15th August. This day is significant for 'political independence' from foreign rule and 'sovereignty', space in international community as full fledged independent nation.

Independence and freedom for the nation is significant internationally. Individual independence and freedom differ. The independence attained on 15th August 1947 was not 'independence' or 'freedom' for individuals as such. But this paved way for onward march towards freedom, security, dignity for all. This is ensured by Indian constitution that came in operation on 26th January 1950. The framing and implementation of Indian constitution ensured citizens rights and governance on democratic and secularism. The issue of governance is related more to Republic Day and less to Independence Day.

Let us hold that independence is real and full. As regards individual liberties, progress, prosperity, equality, let us defer these issue for another Group discussion around Republic Day.

[quote]Many Indians are still starving.Our independence had not beneficial to them.Then how can we say we are independent?

Ditto! Also, I just want to observe here that even though we have through away the shackles of British Rule in India more than 60 years ago, we still have not managed to throw away the education system and the bureaucratic system as was laid down by the British. Although both these systems are not at all working for us, we still follow them religiously![/quote]

We were food deficient and had to import wheat under PL480 from USA. We have made a lot of progress. The fight for better governance is a continuous process. We are not only independent but also democratic.

As regards bureaucracy and education system, I feel that there have been many reforms. Reforms are also not one time affair. These will continue. We hope to continue with reforms because we are independent as well as democratic. I am adding 'as well as democratic' because even a totalitarian regime like North Korea is independent and one party system in china is also independent. Independence of nation should not be confused with system of government and governance.

Being independent does not mean that we should discard everything introduced by British. Let us not forget that leading role in independence movement is of lawyers and those educated in Britain. British education system not only produced clerks but also lawyers who participated in independence struggle. We are also writing these posts in English language introduced to us by British. It is to credit of our national leaders particularly Dr. Ambedkar that they framed our constitution according to our needs. Indian Constitution is not copycat of British, which is unwritten. We are quasi federal as against unitary system of Britain.

Since as a nation, we have place of pride in international community as a sovereign nation, there is no doubt that we are full fledged independent nation. An independent nation may be democratic or dictatorship, poor or rich, well managed or badly managed. Again I have to cite example of North Korea, which is autocratic, people brainwashed and no democratic rights. Yet North Korea is independent. It is 'independence' of North Korea that even U.S.A. world power is scared of.

Gulshan wrote: [quote]We were food deficient and had to import wheat under PL480 from USA. We have made a lot of progress. The fight for better governance is a continuous process. We are not only independent but also democratic.

As regards bureaucracy and education system, I feel that there have been many reforms. Reforms are also not one time affair. These will continue. We hope to continue with reforms because we are independent as well as democratic. I am adding 'as well as democratic' because even a totalitarian regime like North Korea is independent and one party system in china is also independent. Independence of nation should not be confused with system of government and governance.

Being independent does not mean that we should discard everything introduced by British. Let us not forget that leading role in independence movement is of lawyers and those educated in Britain. British education system not only produced clerks but also lawyers who participated in independence struggle. We are also writing these posts in English language introduced to us by British. It is to credit of our national leaders particularly Dr. Ambedkar that they framed our constitution according to our needs. Indian Constitution is not copycat of British, which is unwritten. We are quasi federal as against unitary system of Britain.

Since as a nation, we have place of pride in international community as a sovereign nation, there is no doubt that we are full fledged independent nation. An independent nation may be democratic or dictatorship, poor or rich, well managed or badly managed. Again I have to cite example of North Korea, which is autocratic, people brainwashed and no democratic rights. Yet North Korea is independent. It is 'independence' of North Korea that even U.S.A. world power is scared of. [/quote]

Gulshan, I agree with your views, and I am not saying that the British have not done good to us. In fact they brought the first railway, post and telegraph system, built good roads, passed a law against Sati system etc. But for them, we would probably have been languishing 100 years behind the civilized world. what I want to say is that the education system as was started by British was totally for their convenience, sole purpose being to create a horde of babus who would serve under them efficiently which we did and we still create a horde of Babus!

I want to quote an example, when Sir J.J. School of Arts was formed in erstwhile Bombay, Sir.Jamsetjee Jeejeebhoy who was the founder of this premium institution had meant this to be a school of arts and Industry! whose sole purpose would be train young Indian students to be proficient in fine arts as well as learn trades which will help make them set up various trades and help flourish Indian industry. But a series of Deans and Directors who were mostly British and Post-independence Indians who were totally brainwashed to follow and implement only that what the British wanted us to believe and teach! Sadly that was the end of Sir J.J.'s most cherished dreams, a loss of what could have been a boon for us all!

Pearl,

Here no one is opposing that we are independent and have full freedom to voice out,to pen down,to refuse bribes,to accept progress etc. And any independent country have all these rights but one should talk about reality which means the present situation of India. There are many things which are uncomparable with other countries. The system is having many flaws which are to be improved and the fight for acheiving them is seen for example Baba Ramdev's protest aganist corruption,Hazaria fast and previosly telegana issue. All these things are not done in other countries which are independent which doesnt mean they are not having the problems and the topic to know why they are not fighting is beyond our discussion.

If we are fighting for all these these doesnt it means that still some independence is yet to acheive for justifying the word 'True Independence'. From the starting people are just saying that we are independent but they are forgetting the fact that independence without proper system is not true independence.Hence we can only say that we are independent on 15th Aug and we got freedom on that day from british rule which gave are international status as an independent country but still the Internal independence ffight is going and freedom from many things are yet to be acheived.

Gulshan wrote: [quote]We were food deficient and had to import wheat under PL480 from USA. We have made a lot of progress. The fight for better governance is a continuous process. We are not only independent but also democratic.

As regards bureaucracy and education system, I feel that there have been many reforms. Reforms are also not one time affair. These will continue. We hope to continue with reforms because we are independent as well as democratic. I am adding 'as well as democratic' because even a totalitarian regime like North Korea is independent and one party system in china is also independent. Independence of nation should not be confused with system of government and governance.

Being independent does not mean that we should discard everything introduced by British. Let us not forget that leading role in independence movement is of lawyers and those educated in Britain. British education system not only produced clerks but also lawyers who participated in independence struggle. We are also writing these posts in English language introduced to us by British. It is to credit of our national leaders particularly Dr. Ambedkar that they framed our constitution according to our needs. Indian Constitution is not copycat of British, which is unwritten. We are quasi federal as against unitary system of Britain.

Since as a nation, we have place of pride in international community as a sovereign nation, there is no doubt that we are full fledged independent nation. An independent nation may be democratic or dictatorship, poor or rich, well managed or badly managed. Again I have to cite example of North Korea, which is autocratic, people brainwashed and no democratic rights. Yet North Korea is independent. It is 'independence' of North Korea that even U.S.A. world power is scared of.

Gulshan, I agree with your views, and I am not saying that the British have not done good to us. In fact they brought the first railway, post and telegraph system, built good roads, passed a law against Sati system etc. But for them, we would probably have been languishing 100 years behind the civilized world. what I want to say is that the education system as was started by British was totally for their convenience, sole purpose being to create a horde of babus who would serve under them efficiently which we did and we still create a horde of Babus!

I want to quote an example, when Sir J.J. School of Arts was formed in erstwhile Bombay, Sir.Jamsetjee Jeejeebhoy who was the founder of this premium institution had meant this to be a school of arts and Industry! whose sole purpose would be train young Indian students to be proficient in fine arts as well as learn trades which will help make them set up various trades and help flourish Indian industry. But a series of Deans and Directors who were mostly British and Post-independence Indians who were totally brainwashed to follow and implement only that what the British wanted us to believe and teach! Sadly that was the end of Sir J.J.'s most cherished dreams, a loss of what could have been a boon for us all![/quote]

The British would do nothing for Indians. Whatever they did they did for themselves. But in the process, the sowed seeds of their own destruction. They introduced education system and English for getting clerks but the same education also gave lawyers like Mahatma Gandhi and freedom fighter like Subhash Chandra Bose. Bhagat Singh and other revolutionaries were also inspired by revolutionary uprisings in various parts of globe. English literature inspired Indians for liberty. Also British needed soldiers for their empire. But Subhash Chandra Bose organized the same soldiers by getting them released from Nazi Germany and formed Azad Hind Fauz or INA.

It is natural that many would still be slavish minded when British left. But largely, India adopted policy and system that suited us. There is nothing wrong accepting what suits us if necessary with modification. Now we have entire working people who are brought up in free India. Let us hope that we shall gradually usher in a prosperous, progressive and strong nation of which every citizen will be proud. This hope is based on the glaring fact that we are independent nation and have a distinguished status in international community.

India is independent in the view of other countries but people in india donot feel independence as well. They are sucked by the high soceity people by their communities and by their leaders . Women in india has not full freedom to move out independently she always scare about her security.

[quote]The British would do nothing for Indians. Whatever they did they did for themselves. But in the process, the sowed seeds of their own destruction. They introduced education system and English for getting clerks but the same education also gave lawyers like Mahatma Gandhi and freedom fighter like Subhash Chandra Bose. Bhagat Singh and other revolutionaries were also inspired by revolutionary uprisings in various parts of globe. English literature inspired Indians for liberty. Also British needed soldiers for their empire. But Subhash Chandra Bose organized the same soldiers by getting them released from Nazi Germany and formed Azad Hind Fauz or INA.

It is natural that many would still be slavish minded when British left. But largely, India adopted policy and system that suited us. There is nothing wrong accepting what suits us if necessary with modification. Now we have entire working people who are brought up in free India. Let us hope that we shall gradually usher in a prosperous, progressive and strong nation of which every citizen will be proud. This hope is based on the glaring fact that we are independent nation and have a distinguished status in international community. [/quote]

I accept that India did adopt some policies that were suitable to us but not the major systems. We already had perfectly well balanced educational system, but one which was denied to some and in a manner of speaking is still the case.

As for the babus that they created, more than 70% of all government workers are corrupt and a majority a monument to ineptitude and are there just because they have got a paper(degrees) to show that they deserve the posts!

Where industry was concerned, the British killed the system of balutedari where craftsmen of all trades, carpentry, blacksmith, shoemakers etc. did well on their own and supported and nurtured others' professions. We have simply accepted what was given to us and let us be converted into either factory workers or clerks.

But thanks to globalization, we are hopefully breaking out of these!

The most glaring example of the shackles left by the departing British in 1947 on our shoulders are present even today! If we thought ourselves to be completely independent today, why are we still having these Hindu-Muslim riots 60 years after gaining independence?

It is very much true and I concede to the fact that these riots are mainly fueled by political agendas, but have to agree that the seed left by the rulers was so strong and so deep-rooted that even our wise rulers of the state could not uproot it in any point of time! Was our hatred for each so deep rooted prior to the British came to India that we would kill millions on each side just for the thirst of blood?? This alone shows how successful the British were in breaking us! You just have to utter a base remark and see how it turns into a riot!

The most glaring example of the shackles left by the departing British in 1947 on our shoulders are present even today! If we thought ourselves to be completely independent today, why are we still having these Hindu-Muslim riots 60 years after gaining independence?

It is very much true and I concede to the fact that these riots are mainly fueled by political agendas, but have to agree that the seed left by the rulers was so strong and so deep-rooted that even our wise rulers of the state could not uproot it in any point of time! Was our hatred for each so deep rooted prior to the British came to India that we would kill millions on each side just for the thirst of blood?? This alone shows how successful the British were in breaking us! You just have to utter a base remark and see how it turns into a riot!

The continuation of communal riots after independence is partly a result of vote bank politics. It is also true that the acrimony of partition days is not yet vanished. Let us hope that the communal forces and sentiments will vanish. Our people need to shed narrow considerations of community, region and caste for national progress. Attainment of independence does not immediately make the people worthy of democracy or even independence. People learn to live as responsible citizens of independent country in due course. The post -independence generation has taken over responsibilities from the old guard. Let us hope that people will learn their rights as well as duties.

I agree with Gulshan again on this that there are duties for which we have to stand up.I would also like to point out that post independence communalism is still alive because our politicians want it to live.I remember when the bomb blast had taken place in Mumbai this year, many people spoke openly in media that politicians were trying to communalise the issue instead of tracking the culprits and punishing them.

And Rajini, its not India who protest for such things,there are protest campaigns in America against rascism,inflation and war itself.There are protests in Britain for tax hikes.There was a massive protest in London when tuition fees was hiked,so much that the royal couple was attacked.

My point again,we are not battling issues unknown to any other democratic country.I agree the extent differs and also agree with you reform of humungus proportions are required.

In my opinion,we really are independent but we are on a road to development and require a propellant to progress.As Gulshan mentioned in the earlier post " People learn to live as responsible citizens of independent country in due course.",I believe that is true and unfortunately the road blocks of personal greed and power deters us to grow exponentially.

[quote]The continuation of communal riots after independence is partly a result of vote bank politics. It is also true that the acrimony of partition days is not yet vanished. Let us hope that the communal forces and sentiments will vanish. Our people need to shed narrow considerations of community, region and caste for national progress. Attainment of independence does not immediately make the people worthy of democracy or even independence. People learn to live as responsible citizens of independent country in due course. The post -independence generation has taken over responsibilities from the old guard. Let us hope that people will learn their rights as well as duties. [/quote]

You are right Gulshan, we have to learn to live on hope, in fact do it even now.

And the reason why I consider we are still not independent in true sense is because we have finally managed to accomplish what Churchill himself had wanted and later Henry Kissinger! They were in favor of balkanizing India and that is what we are doing now! On the basis of castes, reservations in all faculties and jobs, to such an extent that the truly intelligent and capable people are having to look elsewhere for better job and better life!

[quote]The continuation of communal riots after independence is partly a result of vote bank politics. It is also true that the acrimony of partition days is not yet vanished. Let us hope that the communal forces and sentiments will vanish. Our people need to shed narrow considerations of community, region and caste for national progress. Attainment of independence does not immediately make the people worthy of democracy or even independence. People learn to live as responsible citizens of independent country in due course. The post -independence generation has taken over responsibilities from the old guard. Let us hope that people will learn their rights as well as duties.

You are right Gulshan, we have to learn to live on hope, in fact do it even now.

And the reason why I consider we are still not independent in true sense is because we have finally managed to accomplish what Churchill himself had wanted and later Henry Kissinger! They were in favor of balkanizing India and that is what we are doing now! On the basis of castes, reservations in all faculties and jobs, to such an extent that the truly intelligent and capable people are having to look elsewhere for better job and better life![/quote]

The reservation policy and vote bank politics are purely Indian and let us not blame British. We are independent nation. Independence is not an unmixed blessing. If you are immature, you will end destroying yourself. Just make a child totally independent and free to do anything. The child will play with fire and electricity and harm. The sorry state of affairs regarding neglect of merit goes to show our immaturity rather than lack of independence.

Incidentally, Britain is badly in flames of racial riots. Is Britain independent?

[quote]The reservation policy and vote bank politics are purely Indian and let us not blame British. We are independent nation. Independence is not an unmixed blessing. If you are immature, you will end destroying yourself. Just make a child totally independent and free to do anything. The child will play with fire and electricity and harm. The sorry state of affairs regarding neglect of merit goes to show our immaturity rather than lack of independence.

Incidentally, Britain is badly in flames of racial riots. Is Britain independent? [/quote]

I am not saying that the reservation policy is not purely Indian but the seed was sowed by the British and we are successfully nurturing it and propagating it!

As for the riots in Britain, it is their own making! They spoiled their people rotten, gave them free welfare money so much to extent that majority of them now do not believe in hard work and that is why they had to import skilled people from Asian countries to do their work. And now when their own youth have no jobs left, they are disgruntled and are carrying out armed loot everywhere.
and again we all know that racism is ingrained in the British and Americans!
what is happening now is just a harbinger of disaster to come!

[quote]The reservation policy and vote bank politics are purely Indian and let us not blame British. We are independent nation. Independence is not an unmixed blessing. If you are immature, you will end destroying yourself. Just make a child totally independent and free to do anything. The child will play with fire and electricity and harm. The sorry state of affairs regarding neglect of merit goes to show our immaturity rather than lack of independence.

Incidentally, Britain is badly in flames of racial riots. Is Britain independent?

I am not saying that the reservation policy is not purely Indian but the seed was sowed by the British and we are successfully nurturing it and propagating it!

As for the riots in Britain, it is their own making! They spoiled their people rotten, gave them free welfare money so much to extent that majority of them now do not believe in hard work and that is why they had to import skilled people from Asian countries to do their work. And now when their own youth have no jobs left, they are disgruntled and are carrying out armed loot everywhere.
and again we all know that racism is ingrained in the British and Americans!
what is happening now is just a harbinger of disaster to come![/quote]

Seeds of reservation were in constitution framed by our leaders. Just as racism is ingrained in the British, caste disparity is in India since centuries. It rather goes to the credit of British that they abolished Sati system on advice of social reformed Raja Ram Mohan Roy. Independence is nothing but a tool to do what we want. This is like proverbial Kalp Vriksha. You will get what you desire and act. Let us stop blaming British. Our ills as well as virtue are our own. The fact remains that we are independent and may use this for our uplift, prosperity and building a just society.

India is independent but the the main personalities of india like its politicians are taking away the freedom from their people . they should use the wealth of india with right purpose not only to fill up their houses but also think about the people of india who are also the weath of country.

Many seeds are sowed by Britishers in India.Some of them were good plants while some where totally bad.Through independence we have received to select from it.But unfortunately we couldn't differentiate the good and bad.

Another point that deters our independence to flourish is the lack of support for the new generation to be an active part of the constitutional frame-work.

Britishers left and we a s a nation did what was necessary to sustain our existence.The reservation system for instance was required initially so that all castes could progress,it was meant to be discontinued when the nation was self-sustained,unfortunately that never happened.

Similarly,the new generation has to take active participation on the socio-political fields and new ideas need to bud and be nourished. The delegation from one generation to the other is pretty slow and unfortunately again we see a dynastic pattern even in politics.

I also as a generation often take our independence for granted.Instead of protecting and fighting for it,we groan on all the pain points and believe no change can take place.This is my personal opinion.There are changes happening and at a painfully slow pace,but I am thankful for the virtual platform that is now being used for awareness and raising questions.

Independence brings responsibility. This is true for individuals and nations both. Thus if you do not depend on others for your needs, you are independent. When we were under British rule, the responsibility for maintaining us rested on the British. Now who is responsible for well being, law and order, peace and progress of India? Nobody except Indians. This is indicative of our independence.

Independence brings responsibility. As long as you are not earning and depending on your parents, you have no responsibility. So, you are not independent. But when you are educated and employed, you are responsible for yourself and family. This responsibility indicates your independent status. This is true for nation also. Accordingly, our status as an independent nation is beyond any shadow of doubt. If we are not mature enough, if we are corrupt, if we are inefficient and lethargic, if we are divided on religion, caste, region; we are still independent.

It is another thing that we have not proved worthy of independence. We have framed and implemented constitution clearly defining duties and functions of citizens, government, parliament, judiciary. If some people still feel that they can usurp power of parliament and for this purpose blackmail by resorting to fast unto death and other coercive tactics and toying with peoples' sentiments, we are not yet ripe for independence. Let us be worthy citizens of independent nation and progress by performing duties and enjoying rights within constitutional framework.

So we are going to celebrate our 65th independence day.once again think about the limits of our independence.