Have Bhopal victims got Justice?

sajeetharan wrote:
[quote]@ santhosh

instead of posting those links you can share those by taking important points from that.

anyway thanks for those links

@ sridevi

Yes i agree with you. You have suggested the same point.

@all
if after investigations it's found out that whatever happened, happened due to negligence/mistake/carelessness.. ??

You drive a car, hit 10 people on footpath kill 5 of them and claim "carelessness". Logical indeed.

We can investigate. We can know about the reasons that made that car go berserk killing 10 people.

If the breaks had failed, then we can't blame the driver.
If the car GOT HIT BY SOMETHING a lost control, can't blame the driver.If the driver was drunk, high on drugs etc etc then we can punish the driver severely.

So we can INVESTIGATE and then decide LOGICALLY.

In this case of bhopal tragedy, maybe those who caused the gas to leak, may have been too casual, but, what they proved in the courts matters. If they have proved in the court that it was a mistake/little carelessness then, two years punishment is just fine. And i guess, they may have proved just that. :)[/quote]

Sajeetharan you have specified the point which is fact..i think it is the thing that happened there...

This show that any case can be manipulated with evidences being changed..And it Happens only in India.

In case of killing people in druken state you said the punishement can be severe which is the example of Salman Khan..right?

Jobin wrote:
[quote]Rajani,

One point is said by you is correct.. Anderson is getting support from US government ( India is also giving indirect support) but victims are not getting real justice and support from the government.. Such a delay in case is also a vital role in giving injustice to the victims of one of the most dreaded tragedies that India has ever faced..

It is also true that money will not create a good life for the sufferers of the tragedy. But it will give some relief and it can be considered as a symbol of justice in such public issue cases.. but giving a less amount of money for just the sake of giving is not a right thing to do... punishment should be also given for the real culprit who was the cause of this tragedy.. This case shows the inefficiency of our government to deal with such cases in which foreigners are included..[/quote]


Thank you jobin for accepting.

Sridevi wrote:
[quote]The underlying thing is that many people were made to live a handicapped life for absolutely no fault of theirs.

And the verdict coming after 25 years itself is a shame. Not to tell of the lightness of the punishment with the lame excuse that it cannot be well-defined as to who is actually responsible.[/quote]


I agree with you sridevi and this is what many think.

Thank you santosh for providing the links..it can help if the exact details are not known..but i think Sajeetharan has alreaady explained what happened in one of the thread. :)

Not only in logical way.. cases in india are manipulated in many ways .. exploiting the flexibility and loop holes in indian laws.. same was happened in the bhopal verdict..

Victims continues to suffer...

Culprits continues to live happily...


India once again kneeled before foreign forces... !!

Jobin wrote:
[quote]Not only in logical way.. cases in india are manipulated in many ways .. exploiting the flexibility and loop holes in indian laws.. same was happened in the bhopal verdict..

Victims continues to suffer...

Culprits continues to live happily...


India once again kneeled before foreign forces... !![/quote]


Yes jobin i think India can never live like a king as we are used to be ruled by foreigner before..and eventhough we are independent now that habit is not changed in our system.. :)

[hide]Not only in logical way.. cases in india are manipulated in many ways .. exploiting the flexibility and loop holes in indian laws.. same was happened in the bhopal verdict..

Victims continues to suffer...

Culprits continues to live happily...

India once again kneeled before foreign forces... !![/hide]


@Jobin

At last everyone is opting for the same point. We already know what had Happened and you have mentioned the same here.

Mr Anderson should be made to reside in an industrially polluted area, that wouldd serve as the best sort of punishment and so should be applied to people who violate environmental and safety norms for cheap profits.

it cant happen in this period... I do hope God has a way with such people!

Perhaps he would never get a punishment, thanks due to our slow legal system and ineffective government (Congress govts) policies on any matter which has an "international" angle in it.

Like Quattrochi never got punishment, Anderson will also never get any...

Rajani K wrote:


[quote]
Yes jobin i think India can never live like a king as we are used to be ruled by foreigner before..and eventhough we are independent now that habit is not changed in our system.. :)[/quote]

Before independence... they had influenced as from inside our system.. now.. though they are out of our system.. they even have the power to influence and challenge our system... !!

@Santosh Kumar Singh,

In GD's your not supposed to post any links of third party sites, instead you can gather the information and put it in your own words.

sajeetharan wrote:
[quote][hide]Not only in logical way.. cases in india are manipulated in many ways .. exploiting the flexibility and loop holes in indian laws.. same was happened in the bhopal verdict..

Victims continues to suffer...

Culprits continues to live happily...

India once again kneeled before foreign forces... !![/hide]


@Jobin

At last everyone is opting for the same point. We already know what had Happened and you have mentioned the same here.

Mr Anderson should be made to reside in an industrially polluted area, that wouldd serve as the best sort of punishment and so should be applied to people who violate environmental and safety norms for cheap profits.

it cant happen in this period... I do hope God has a way with such people!

Perhaps he would never get a punishment, thanks due to our slow legal system and ineffective government (Congress govts) policies on any matter which has an "international" angle in it.

Like Quattrochi never got punishment, Anderson will also never get any...[/quote]

Yes Sajeetharan,you are right he should be punished like that but will there be any end for such problems...if the crime is done by culprit in some 30 years of age...he will become old with the case and the victims families or the next generation of the victims have to face the proceedings. :) Finally they wont get full justice for that. I think may be Anderson himself has to declare his punishment... :P :)

Criminal culpability is not to be confused with tortious liability. It will take a lot of guts for India to take on USA and get the company pay for the colossal loss they caused both by human sufferings and environmental degradation. Criminal culpability is different. The latter does not impinge on the former. If actually Anderson is the person who gave the directions which when implemented caused the disaster and if he did it knowing that the directions he gave would actually cause the loss the world witnessed in awe, age of the accused is no bar for the justice to take its own course. Whatever be the age of Mr. Anderson, if he is guilty of culpable homicide, the law undoubtedly should take its course. Our law does not recognize blood money. And blood money is no solution to the problem.

sajeetharan wrote:
[quote]Criminal culpability is not to be confused with tortious liability. It will take a lot of guts for India to take on USA and get the company pay for the colossal loss they caused both by human sufferings and environmental degradation. Criminal culpability is different. The latter does not impinge on the former. If actually Anderson is the person who gave the directions which when implemented caused the disaster and if he did it knowing that the directions he gave would actually cause the loss the world witnessed in awe, age of the accused is no bar for the justice to take its own course. Whatever be the age of Mr. Anderson, if he is guilty of culpable homicide, the law undoubtedly should take its course. Our law does not recognize blood money. And blood money is no solution to the problem.[/quote]

Yes as said by you age is not a constraint for law to give punishment.But i am talking about the victims who had to wait for such a long time to get compensation...that to very less after such a struggle...maybe some victims must have undoubtedly lost there hope too... now maybe there great grandson are waiting for the justice which will not be given.
However as said by you and my previous replies PM has also stated that fully justist can not be given which is clear that there will be no further proceeding..

Yes.. the victims have indeed struggled a lota and the money that the Bhopal victims have spent to get justice will be more than the compensation! Such is the sad state of the Indian judicial system.

And it seems Indians abrod will be punished if found guilty, but we have secon thoughts in punishing foreigners in India.

There was a crude insult to the victims by sentencing the serious culprits to two years simple imprisonment and allowing to be left on bail. At least a life sentence would have consoled the families who had lost their best part of life in agony of pain and deprivation.

Now Activists may appeal and apex court may perhaps increase the sentence. But the fact that a worst tragedy was decided in this tardy fashion after a quarter century of hide and seek by the Prosecutors and the accused, speaks poorly of the play of justice administration in the country

No, I don't think the Bhopal Gas Victims has got any semblance of justice, what they had to go through for twenty-six years is a shame for the Nation!

The Bhopal episode is actually multi-faceted: the legal issues, the health issues, the compensation issues and anyway you look at it, it is a complete failure or plain insensitivity from all, be it the local and central government or the judiciary or even the investigating agencies as well.

Since justice is not only confined in the legal parameters, so we have to take all of these into account. Firstly, talking of the legal issue, the prime accused Warren Anderson, CEO, Union Carbide was allowed free passage by the then central government of India about which the political mud-slinging is still going on. Those officials of Union Carbide India who were prosecuted firstly under section 304 of the IPC, which is the section for culpable homicide not amounting to murder with a maximum sentence up to 10 years in prison, the supreme court judgment of 1996 converted it to 304A of the IPC, which is the section for causing death due to negligence and maximum sentence up to 2 years in prison, therefore diluting the charges.

There has been a massive concerted effort from the Governments' side to demean the magnitude of this disaster, starting from denying ampules of sodium thiosulphate to the victims to stopping ICMR from continuing its research. Therefore if we look at the health issues, it's a disgustingly shocking story of how those people were just left to die, to say in short! Since the total area is still very much toxic, therefore more and more people are either dying from diseases like cancer and brain tumors or getting crippled children because of that, making it worse and worse everyday. I'd like to add one thing here, the Bhopal Memorial Hospital was instituted only to treat Gas victims, but now it treats private patients more, lacks essential treatment facilities and treats the Gas victims and their family with utmost humiliation, as per their version.

If we look at the compensation again it seems so shameful. Firstly, Union Carbide was let off with a meager compensation of 470 million U.S.Dollars, not taking into account the long-term effects of the disaster, which was only 15% of the claim that was made by the Indian Government and even approved by the Supreme Court. Even that did not reach to all the people, as I've heard in the media most of it is still lying unused in the bank, only few people has got a few thousand rupees. This is the price our own Government has selected for more than 20,000 deaths of its own people and 500,000 affected, does Indian lives get any cheaper for the multinational companies liking, eying India as business destination!

Regarding the package of compensation decided by the present GoM, the activists say it does not include 90% of those affected as it only includes those affected by the Gas leak and not those crippled or dead from the toxic wastes, the number of which is huge and even that money is going to come from the average Indian Taxpayer's Pocket and not from the coffers of Dow Chemicals, which presently owns Union Carbide.

So to sum it up all in a line: since there has been a huge uproar from the Nation regarding this grand injustice, the Government has got into swing for damage-control exercise to hoodwink the people of this Nation one last time and send this lingering issue into the deep freezer for eternity!

[hide]So to sum it up all in a line: since there has been a huge uproar from the Nation regarding this grand injustice, the Government has got into swing for damage-control exercise to hoodwink the people of this Nation one last time and send this lingering issue into the deep freezer for eternity![/hide]

@smarajit chowdhury

Yes you are absolutely right. And this is what we have been discussing for the past 5 days.

20000 died, and Rs.25000 was the amount of bail-so the price of the life of an indian is Re.1.25-this is the 'justice' that has been delivered. Dont want to comment on the CJM's remarks; people like them will never understand what it takes to wait for 26 yrs. for justice only to get a big slap on the face. Lastly, the CBI has once again established its worthlessness & irresponsibility.

Bhopal gas tragedy - 1984

Anti-sikh riots -1984

Mumbai Blasts -1992

Gujarat Riots -2002

and many more are yet to come .

Dhananjoy chatterjee - the rapist - who was the last one hanged in India - by punishment was also given punishment only after 14 years .

What else can we expect from Indian judicial system,-we have rathore case which also is taking too long .

Well @smarajit chowdhury

There is nothing new to expect from our government. PM incapable statement that "Bopal gas victims can not get full Justice" which i already stated before in my previous thread itself proves it.

Sufferers have to just manage there whole life suffering with disability or diseases, caused by toxic elements in air with the so called compensation that can not even bare there maedical expenses for month.

As said by Sajeetharan many cases are yet to recieve judgement which will defientely take more days if compared to this case which needs urgency

Now I think its time for results, so I am locking this thread and in a short span I will announce the results.

Hello,

Here are the results.

Winner: Sajeetharan

Runner: Jobin

Members eligible for Bonus Points

Jobin
Rajani K
Sajeetharan
Sridevi

My hearty congratulations to the both Sajeetharan and Jobin. Even though there was no healthy competition this time Sajeetharan provided some valuable information in his responses. Keep the good work going on.