Criteria for promotions - merit or seniority ?

Bajirao wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

In India we have unemployment as well as under employment because of lack of job opportunities. However, some retired senior officials known to me have landed better paying jobs after their retirement. It is probably due too  the fact that they have a lot to contribute. There is one more avenue for retired professors and lecturers , which I find quite ridiculous. Some private colleges wanting to cut down on staff expenditure , just to keep to the standard student/teacher ratio enroll some retired and well known professors as honorary lecturers. They are paid a smaller sum compared to what a regular professor gets and get to do nothing except go for invigilation and guest lectures once or twice a month. Everyone is happy in this situation but it also shows how our education system works..

 

Agree, honorary lectures have become very common in today's educational system. It's win win situation for both the side, retired people can make some money only for tutoring twice or thrice a month and schools and colleges can save money on full time teacher or professor. Here only one who suffers are students, they don't know whom to contact in case if they have any query with respect to particular topic.

That's the whole point, it is a nexus between the school and college management and the tuition institutions. The lesser the studies at school  the more chances of the students going for tuition. So, the teachers and lecturers are getting double pay , at their school or colleges and tuition institutes. The one good thing here is that senior lecturers have an opportunity to work after their retirement.

usha manohar wrote:

Bajirao wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

In India we have unemployment as well as under employment because of lack of job opportunities. However, some retired senior officials known to me have landed better paying jobs after their retirement. It is probably due too  the fact that they have a lot to contribute. There is one more avenue for retired professors and lecturers , which I find quite ridiculous. Some private colleges wanting to cut down on staff expenditure , just to keep to the standard student/teacher ratio enroll some retired and well known professors as honorary lecturers. They are paid a smaller sum compared to what a regular professor gets and get to do nothing except go for invigilation and guest lectures once or twice a month. Everyone is happy in this situation but it also shows how our education system works..

 

Agree, honorary lectures have become very common in today's educational system. It's win win situation for both the side, retired people can make some money only for tutoring twice or thrice a month and schools and colleges can save money on full time teacher or professor. Here only one who suffers are students, they don't know whom to contact in case if they have any query with respect to particular topic.

That's the whole point, it is a nexus between the school and college management and the tuition institutions. The lesser the studies at school  the more chances of the students going for tuition. So, the teachers and lecturers are getting double pay , at their school or colleges and tuition institutes. The one good thing here is that senior lecturers have an opportunity to work after their retirement.

I know a teacher and another a Professor of a reputed university who neither took private tuitions during their job nor after retirement. Both of them feel that its against principle. They can still earn a lot but not ready to compromise.

Shampa Sadhya wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Bajirao wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

In India we have unemployment as well as under employment because of lack of job opportunities. However, some retired senior officials known to me have landed better paying jobs after their retirement. It is probably due too  the fact that they have a lot to contribute. There is one more avenue for retired professors and lecturers , which I find quite ridiculous. Some private colleges wanting to cut down on staff expenditure , just to keep to the standard student/teacher ratio enroll some retired and well known professors as honorary lecturers. They are paid a smaller sum compared to what a regular professor gets and get to do nothing except go for invigilation and guest lectures once or twice a month. Everyone is happy in this situation but it also shows how our education system works..

 

Agree, honorary lectures have become very common in today's educational system. It's win win situation for both the side, retired people can make some money only for tutoring twice or thrice a month and schools and colleges can save money on full time teacher or professor. Here only one who suffers are students, they don't know whom to contact in case if they have any query with respect to particular topic.

That's the whole point, it is a nexus between the school and college management and the tuition institutions. The lesser the studies at school  the more chances of the students going for tuition. So, the teachers and lecturers are getting double pay , at their school or colleges and tuition institutes. The one good thing here is that senior lecturers have an opportunity to work after their retirement.

I know a teacher and another a Professor of a reputed university who neither took private tuitions during their job nor after retirement. Both of them feel that its against principle. They can still earn a lot but not ready to compromise.

 

Definitely there are people who stick to their principles. Mu own uncle , a retired teacher never agreed for tutions. He was really a great teacher and is known for his excellent teaching methods. Many rich people offered my uncle very high fees to teach their children in his leisure time. But he politely refused them.

Shampa Sadhya wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Bajirao wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

In India we have unemployment as well as under employment because of lack of job opportunities. However, some retired senior officials known to me have landed better paying jobs after their retirement. It is probably due too  the fact that they have a lot to contribute. There is one more avenue for retired professors and lecturers , which I find quite ridiculous. Some private colleges wanting to cut down on staff expenditure , just to keep to the standard student/teacher ratio enroll some retired and well known professors as honorary lecturers. They are paid a smaller sum compared to what a regular professor gets and get to do nothing except go for invigilation and guest lectures once or twice a month. Everyone is happy in this situation but it also shows how our education system works..

 

Agree, honorary lectures have become very common in today's educational system. It's win win situation for both the side, retired people can make some money only for tutoring twice or thrice a month and schools and colleges can save money on full time teacher or professor. Here only one who suffers are students, they don't know whom to contact in case if they have any query with respect to particular topic.

That's the whole point, it is a nexus between the school and college management and the tuition institutions. The lesser the studies at school  the more chances of the students going for tuition. So, the teachers and lecturers are getting double pay , at their school or colleges and tuition institutes. The one good thing here is that senior lecturers have an opportunity to work after their retirement.

I know a teacher and another a Professor of a reputed university who neither took private tuitions during their job nor after retirement. Both of them feel that its against principle. They can still earn a lot but not ready to compromise.

It is not illegal to give tuition, in fact they may be doing a service to the students by giving extra coaching . it need not be only about money..I know of many good teacher and lectures who teach well at their own colleges but also give tuition at coaching institutes , where students from all colleges come, some of them really in need of extra coaching.

This is two sides of the same coin. One needs both merit and experience. As far as government jobs are concerned ( except armed forces) there is hardly any meritocracy as there is a reservation of 50% on caste.

I can't say about others but after I took an early release I have held some top appointments in the Civil including the UNO.Experience was preferred.But it cannot be a general rule

I used to go to tuitions when I was a High school student.This teacher used to conduct tuitions in a nearby Temple premises.. The number of students generally will be between 20 to 30. Almost a regular School class. He uses me to correct the other Notes of the students as I used to be  reasonably good student in my class. Another thing is some of the boys will be used to fetch the vegetables for the tuition master. There are these kinds of tuitions too.

MG Singh wrote:

This is two sides of the same coin. One needs both merit and experience. As far as government jobs are concerned ( except armed forces) there is hardly any meritocracy as there is a reservation of 50% on caste.

I can't say about others but after I took an early release I have held some top appointments in the Civil including the UNO.Experience was preferred.But it cannot be a general rule

Both qualification and experience matters and they also become the merit of a person when employers consider them. A qualified and experienced person will definitely be preferred over a less experienced person even if he or she has more qualifications

Today organizations are going increasingly for flat structures where knowledge, skill are more important than experience. There was a time when army was considered a model for men management but now there also a flatter structure is taking shape and experience is going to give way to modern knowledge and skills. Organizations relying on experience are ones which are resistant or slow to change generally.

we will be experienced only if we get the opportunity to work and get use to it. if we don't get the job only then how we will be experienced 

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

yeah many of the senior now a day knows exactly what is the need asked for in the market so i think experience comes in doing in every situation 

Organizations always look towards those people, who serve the organization's interests.Even a small business man hopes to do business with profits. In this regard, a senior member has an edge over the youngsters. Again it's the attitude of the management of an organization that matters.

usha manohar wrote:

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

True...that too and now more focus is given on hiring candidates who are able to multitask effectively. When it comes to multitasking, usually the seniors lose out as they find it hard to pick up new skills in addition to what they have been doing for years. Younger, on the other hand, have no problem multitasking and get picked up. But unfortunately, it does have long term consequences that in due course of time, their may not be people left with in-depth knowledge of any particular expertise, as youngsters tend to focus only on picking up enough to do a job and not go in deeper.

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

True...that too and now more focus is given on hiring candidates who are able to multitask effectively. When it comes to multitasking, usually the seniors lose out as they find it hard to pick up new skills in addition to what they have been doing for years. Younger, on the other hand, have no problem multitasking and get picked up. But unfortunately, it does have long term consequences that in due course of time, their may not be people left with in-depth knowledge of any particular expertise, as youngsters tend to focus only on picking up enough to do a job and not go in deeper.

Kalyani, there is no denying that the youngsters if today are a very smart lot, also having the advantage of youthful agility on their side. As far as multitasking goes, like you said one cannot do full justice to any one job since you are dividing your attention. I have an uncle working for nescafe of course he is retired now. He did his BSC after joining the company realising that he lacked the required knowledge and qualification and could be left behind ESP when qualified youngsters were joining in. Later he did a course in computer management and finally an MBA, all of this while in service. He reached a very high position before his retirement. 

I have seen most of the Business organizations believe in providing opportunities for the youngsters. The organizations are  ready to bear the losses. The management of these organizations think these losses are worth taking  as one of these youngsters may emerge as the Man Friday and prove his worth in making the Organization walk on the path of profits. Additionally most of these youngsters are recruited as apprentices for lesser wages.

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

True...that too and now more focus is given on hiring candidates who are able to multitask effectively. When it comes to multitasking, usually the seniors lose out as they find it hard to pick up new skills in addition to what they have been doing for years. Younger, on the other hand, have no problem multitasking and get picked up. But unfortunately, it does have long term consequences that in due course of time, their may not be people left with in-depth knowledge of any particular expertise, as youngsters tend to focus only on picking up enough to do a job and not go in deeper.

Kalyani, there is no denying that the youngsters if today are a very smart lot, also having the advantage of youthful agility on their side. As far as multitasking goes, like you said one cannot do full justice to any one job since you are dividing your attention. I have an uncle working for nescafe of course he is retired now. He did his BSC after joining the company realising that he lacked the required knowledge and qualification and could be left behind ESP when qualified youngsters were joining in. Later he did a course in computer management and finally an MBA, all of this while in service. He reached a very high position before his retirement. 

That is really commendable Usha, he took those many efforts so that he could not be left behind. It is this attribute of willingness and ability to adapt quickly to changes is what most in the end, even much more than experience, knowledge and even seniority.

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

True...that too and now more focus is given on hiring candidates who are able to multitask effectively. When it comes to multitasking, usually the seniors lose out as they find it hard to pick up new skills in addition to what they have been doing for years. Younger, on the other hand, have no problem multitasking and get picked up. But unfortunately, it does have long term consequences that in due course of time, their may not be people left with in-depth knowledge of any particular expertise, as youngsters tend to focus only on picking up enough to do a job and not go in deeper.

Kalyani, there is no denying that the youngsters if today are a very smart lot, also having the advantage of youthful agility on their side. As far as multitasking goes, like you said one cannot do full justice to any one job since you are dividing your attention. I have an uncle working for nescafe of course he is retired now. He did his BSC after joining the company realising that he lacked the required knowledge and qualification and could be left behind ESP when qualified youngsters were joining in. Later he did a course in computer management and finally an MBA, all of this while in service. He reached a very high position before his retirement. 

That is really commendable Usha, he took those many efforts so that he could not be left behind. It is this attribute of willingness and ability to adapt quickly to changes is what most in the end, even much more than experience, knowledge and even seniority.

Yes his is an exemplary case and not many would think of educating themselves after marriage, kids and having worked for a considerable number of years. Basically , even the seniors should keep in step with the youngsters and it is not impossible.

Now most of the organizations are equipped with highly computerized equipment. It's here the senior persons fail to cope up with. Whereas youngsters are very easily getting adjusted to the new technology. Youngsters are more inclined to use the innovative ways to boost the profits of the organization employing Apps and other new technological developments,

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

There is definitely a change in the attitude of the employers which has become more capitalistic in its preference , more an American concept where the capacity of a person to impress and bring in business becomes the most preferred qualification. But this has its own short comings in the long run. A senior experienced person need not always have old fashioned ideas, he or she may be with the times and know what exactly is needed for the betterment of the company, given a chance ! It is normally youngsters with a few years of experience that get the best of jobs.

True...that too and now more focus is given on hiring candidates who are able to multitask effectively. When it comes to multitasking, usually the seniors lose out as they find it hard to pick up new skills in addition to what they have been doing for years. Younger, on the other hand, have no problem multitasking and get picked up. But unfortunately, it does have long term consequences that in due course of time, their may not be people left with in-depth knowledge of any particular expertise, as youngsters tend to focus only on picking up enough to do a job and not go in deeper.

Kalyani, there is no denying that the youngsters if today are a very smart lot, also having the advantage of youthful agility on their side. As far as multitasking goes, like you said one cannot do full justice to any one job since you are dividing your attention. I have an uncle working for nescafe of course he is retired now. He did his BSC after joining the company realising that he lacked the required knowledge and qualification and could be left behind ESP when qualified youngsters were joining in. Later he did a course in computer management and finally an MBA, all of this while in service. He reached a very high position before his retirement. 

That is really commendable Usha, he took those many efforts so that he could not be left behind. It is this attribute of willingness and ability to adapt quickly to changes is what most in the end, even much more than experience, knowledge and even seniority.

Yes his is an exemplary case and not many would think of educating themselves after marriage, kids and having worked for a considerable number of years. Basically , even the seniors should keep in step with the youngsters and it is not impossible.

True, it is not impossible for anyone, only the will to accept change and adapt accordingly has to be there.

Learning is a constant process. My Brother-in -Law worked as an Adviser to the Department of health, Govt of Afghanistan, in Seventies. Prior to that he worked as a Medical Record officer in JIPMER, Jawaharlal Institute of Medical education and Postgraduate Center in Pondycherry. There, at the time of promotions he used to compete with youngsters much much younger than him. But he always used to get the promotion to the utter amazement of the youngsters who are equally competent.

Seeing their intelligence and will to work hard, my brother -in -law suggested the management to start a system where in Seniors  and Juniors, can work together learning from each other for the overall development of the Organization.