Indo Pak Relationship

The British have to be credited with the fact that they for the first time brought under their control the then undivided India and thus gave a geographical and political definition to it. Otherwise there would have been multiple countries which would have emerged from the numerable kingdoms that existed. Having come under one rule both Hindus and Muslims then indirectly and directly started carving out space for their religious controls which resulted in partition. It was inevitable and should be accepted as such without blaming anyone. It was history in action. These very reasons will not permit India and Pakistan uniting again.

Sir

I still beg to differ. It is true that credit goes to the British for taking control of hundreds of the small kingdoms and defining the geographical boundry of the country but while granting freedom and partition they had granted liberty to those kingdoms to exercise their option to join any of the two countries. Since I belong to the family who had the brunt of the partition and had to migrate to India, having been stick to our religion, I had to say that the seeds of partition were laid by the British and some of the Muslim leaders were used for that cause.In our native village, there was nothing so ugly between Hindu and muslim families there.

Indian Muslims are not foreigner to this country - they or their forefathers were forced to convert into Islam by the muslim aggressors. Many muslim families living in Bharat have respect and observe Hindu festivals alike. Similarly, those muslim families who have migrated to Pakistan but having some links with their relatives in Bharat remain interested in our festivals. Muslims living in this sub-continent have similar living styles. The differences if any are not indigenous. I understand that unification is difficult but it is not impossible if both countries continue cultural exchanges and it can get boost if Pakistan Government may understand the ground reality of their people. Unification can solve a number of problems in this sub-continent and we can work over that.

@Gulati : I fully appreciate your sentiments as you belong to the population which got uprooted due to partition. I also accept the fact that large percent of Muslims in the sub-  continent are converts from Hinduism, either out of choice or force and thus are closely related to the ethos of undivided India. This was a contributory reason for both communities living cordially since long. However we are talking of today's times. There is a significant section of our population which wants India to become a Hindu country just like Pakistan is an Islamic country.

The ill treatment of minorities in Pakistan, reducing there share from 12%  in 1947 to less than 2% today is used as a weapon by these forces. Also secularism is blamed for giving minorities more preference by these groups. 

Pakistan has now traveled a long distance and become a nuclear power. Why should it lose its identity by merging with India. These are romanticised dreams which will never get fulfilled. However on a cultural front personal contacts can always take place. Unification is a very very distant dream perhaps not worth chasing.

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

I do contribute to your views. This a fact that the  seeds of partition  are laid by the British. In this process they used a few Muslim Leaders. Regarding the religious tolerance both Muslims and Hindus living in some of  those areas had set an example.  My friends' Great grand father shared his fond experiences and passed on to the next generations. And I came to know about them. This I had stated in my earlier responses.

Let's see the things in the real perspective about Political scenario in Modern India. You know how it is trying its best to establish the concept of Hindu Rashtrra. In these conditions unification is not only difficult, but also impossible.

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

Musrf Parvez, Ex president of Pakistan accepted in his one interview that Laden, Jawahir is our hero and Laskar is our creation. Now what is left to prove that Pakistan is mother land of terror and terrorist.

Such wishy-washy thoughts completely betray ignorance the harder realities which surround Indo-Pak relationship.These two countries have virtually drifted away to two poles in terms of ideology, political architecture and even culture.Pakistan is a failed state with its military establishment and feudal lords developing a permanent vested interest in anti-Indiaism to begin with to emerge as the greatest distabilising threat to world peace and security.How mere cultural exchanges can bridge this yawning chasm in perceptions is beyond my comprehension.

anil wrote:

Musrf Parvez, Ex president of Pakistan accepted in his one interview that Laden, Jawahir is our hero and Laskar is our creation. Now what is left to prove that Pakistan is mother land of terror and terrorist.

Exactly. Both the countries had reached a point of no return. The provocative firings across the border and giving shelter to Dawood Ibrahim prove that Unification of India and Pakistan is mere wishful thinking. Here is the proof.that Pakistan is still protecting Terrorists like Dawood Imrahim

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/dawood-ibrahim-leaked-tapes-karachi-pakistan/1/409047.html

 

 

 

Lopamudra wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

I agree, hoping and wishing for a unified Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is a distant dream and just that, a dream. People have moved a long way apart and no one wants the union to happen and it is not even feasible and practical. So all we should hope and for and work for is something on the lines of European Union, existing peacefully along with others and not generally interfering in each other's internal affairs. But that too is something that only India can try and achieve, hoping that to happen from other two is again impossible.

@vijay:

<p>@vijay:Beyond the geographical boundaries, Bharat is largely considered as a Hindu Nation but the successive governments continued to practise secularism, more so as appeasement-oriented policy, perhaps to keep the friendship with the muslim countries at ease. Why I propose for the unification is for the correction of the wrong what we had committed in 1947 of accepting the division on the basis of the religions. Why did we accept it at all ?Being a Hindu Rashtra, we are not taking stern action in J & K against those who compelled Kashmiri Hindus to migrate elsewhere within India. Hindus are in minority there. If officially or mentally we can not think of unification, we must redefine our secularism too by applying uniform policies for all the citizens at par. Indo-pak relationship can be given a brighter form by strictness on our stand inhouse. Pakistan finds its friends easily within Indian muslims because of religious linkage and such friends become sleepy spies sometime as we found very recently in Jammu Kashmir when our army arrested one terrorist alive. Not only this, we find Engineer Rashid type politicians and separatists who speak of Pakistan more than Bharat in spite of living in this country and we are not taking action against them under the treason with the country. We are Hindus and we say proudly as such, this community deserves to have all the rights what it deserves after the slavery of so many centuries. This community in its totality has all the vigour and energy to become a super power again with the maximum tolerance and patience. Other powers are also successful even after remaining strict to their native language and ethics.<p>

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Lopamudra wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

I agree, hoping and wishing for a unified Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is a distant dream and just that, a dream. People have moved a long way apart and no one wants the union to happen and it is not even feasible and practical. So all we should hope and for and work for is something on the lines of European Union, existing peacefully along with others and not generally interfering in each other's internal affairs. But that too is something that only India can try and achieve, hoping that to happen from other two is again impossible.

When there is a complete lack of trust it is next to impossible for the two countries to come together let alone unite as one. Practically speaking, however much Indians may want to reclaim back Pakistan which was part of India, it would be like opening Pandora box which could only bring in problems galore , as if we don't have enough of our own now !

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Lopamudra wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

I agree, hoping and wishing for a unified Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is a distant dream and just that, a dream. People have moved a long way apart and no one wants the union to happen and it is not even feasible and practical. So all we should hope and for and work for is something on the lines of European Union, existing peacefully along with others and not generally interfering in each other's internal affairs. But that too is something that only India can try and achieve, hoping that to happen from other two is again impossible.

When there is a complete lack of trust it is next to impossible for the two countries to come together let alone unite as one. Practically speaking, however much Indians may want to reclaim back Pakistan which was part of India, it would be like opening Pandora box which could only bring in problems galore , as if we don't have enough of our own now !

You are right, Unification of India and Pakistan is far-fetched. Indeed some citizen of Pakistan is not like to stay there. These Hindus, Sikhs and Muzahadin. Muzahadin are Muslim who were migrated from India at the time of Particians. Here is link to know what is the condition of Minorties in Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/659230633844015105?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&sig=e7cb6d594260c303b24bd1f1bf3a8fd28bd94532&al=1&refsrc=email&iid=d8ff8312d3c24d7fb3c0dbd093b4c3d8&autoactions=1446024719&uid=438467000&nid=244+591

 

anil wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

Kalyani Nandurkar wrote:

Lopamudra wrote:

usha manohar wrote:

If the two countries can maintain at least friendly economic and social relationships that would be good enough rather than hope to have a united front which is impossible because that would give rise to many minor issues like having a common law that would be suitable to all cand so on..

 

Totally agree. Differences are far too many to even think of a possibility like that. Being cordial with each other is all we can hope for. I have stayed in Punjab for quite some time and I know many of the families there have gone through the pain of partition and have relatives across the border. But I've also seen the tension there. Even India Pakistan cricket match used to seem like a war !!

 

 

I agree, hoping and wishing for a unified Pakistan, India and Bangladesh is a distant dream and just that, a dream. People have moved a long way apart and no one wants the union to happen and it is not even feasible and practical. So all we should hope and for and work for is something on the lines of European Union, existing peacefully along with others and not generally interfering in each other's internal affairs. But that too is something that only India can try and achieve, hoping that to happen from other two is again impossible.

When there is a complete lack of trust it is next to impossible for the two countries to come together let alone unite as one. Practically speaking, however much Indians may want to reclaim back Pakistan which was part of India, it would be like opening Pandora box which could only bring in problems galore , as if we don't have enough of our own now !

You are right, Unification of India and Pakistan is far-fetched. Indeed some citizen of Pakistan is not like to stay there. These Hindus, Sikhs and Muzahadin. Muzahadin are Muslim who were migrated from India at the time of Particians. Here is link to know what is the condition of Minorties in Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/noconversion/status/659230633844015105?t=1&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjc18y&sig=e7cb6d594260c303b24bd1f1bf3a8fd28bd94532&al=1&refsrc=email&iid=d8ff8312d3c24d7fb3c0dbd093b4c3d8&autoactions=1446024719&uid=438467000&nid=244+591

True. Unification is possible only when there is mutual trust. And this trust is totally absent between the two countries.

A Muslim sees a Hindu with suspicion. And Hindu sees a Muslim with hatred and doubt.Basically the partition took place due to lack of mutual trust and hatred between the Hindus and  Muslims.

Now with regular provocative cross border firings and providing shelter to Terrorists by Pakistan has confirmed that Unification is not possible.

 

 

It is a natural human tendency that our hearts grow fonder about the past.Revisiting history only helps us to learn pragmatic lessons out of it. Mahatma drew on his full moral persuasive powers to prevent partition and paid with his dear life. Closer home India could not prevent prevent bloodshed,death and final bifurcation of a state sharing same culture,language and heritage.Yet AP was bifurcated. In a scenario like this reunification with a nation whose insane leaders have earned notoriety and consequent shame and disgrace world over,looks more than a pipe dream!

chinmoymukherjee wrote:

It is a natural human tendency that our hearts grow fonder about the past.Revisiting history only helps us to learn pragmatic lessons out of it. Mahatma drew on his full moral persuasive powers to prevent partition and paid with his dear life. Closer home India could not prevent prevent bloodshed,death and final bifurcation of a state sharing same culture,language and heritage.Yet AP was bifurcated. In a scenario like this reunification with a nation whose insane leaders have earned notoriety and consequent shame and disgrace world over,looks more than a pipe dream!

Absolutely, we have seen such things happening within our country so how can one even think of unifying two ideologically, totally different nations , sharing nothing but a bloody past and present ..

@ Gulati: Your view are those of someone who wants to achieve many things simultaneously disregarding the realities as they exist or as they evolved. Just because Pakistan maltreated its minorities is that a reason that we should a;so do the same? Then in what way we are different and why should we condemn their brute behaviour? Secularism is a lofty principle and requires maturity and tolerance which was there till a few years. It got drowned in a maze of corruption and rise of alternate views gaining strength. That is  politics. Are you sure that by declaring India a Hindu Rashtra all our problems will be resolved or do you want Pakistan type solutions to be adopted by India also. Whatever may be the view point, unification is not possible nor desirable. I have myself experienced the warm relations Indians and Pakistanis have with each other outside India where they feel comforted by each others presence. But back home the demons seem to take over.

With all said and done in view of the Present political scenario and the frequent incidents of firing killing many Indians living in Border states, reunification of India and Pakistan remains as a pipe dream.

 

rambabu wrote:

With all said and done in view of the Present political scenario and the frequent incidents of firing killing many Indians living in Border states, reunification of India and Pakistan remains as a pipe dream.

Yes peoples are killing is J&K in firing by Pakistan. Cordial relation is in best interest on both countries. But Pakistan army never would it.