apparently, there is lot of diversification in views of BJP governments on beef and cow slaughter. The Maharashtra govt. has banned beef sale and cow slaughter. But the Goa government is taking the party slogan- sab ka saath sab ka haath- very literally. The Goa government wants cooperation and progress of Muslims aqnd Christians also and so is keen to provide beef to the minorities by import.
suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:If cow slaughter is going to be approached from an religious angle then rational arguement cannot take place. Linking other social evils with it and bringing other country practices is causing confusion. The Hindu religion elevating the cow to a high status was perfectly alright in the times when cow fulfilled an economic purpose. The cow gave milk,.helped plough the field, its dung was a fuel, urine had medicinal value and after death its skin was used as leather. Truly the cow was revered as a mata and is referred today also as gowmata. However as its economic uses have been taken over by buffalo milk,tractors,coal and gas and plastics replacing leather, the cow has become almost totally replaceble. So its numbers are bound to go down. Also afterit stops being useful the owners find it economically tough to feed it and thus dispose it off just as in poultry farms hens are slaughtered once they stop laying eggs.The government can ban cow slaughter but how will it compensate the owner for the costs they will incurr after its economic life is over. That is a big issue. Owners are known to abandon them just as thousands of widows are abandoned and live in Mathura in dire circumstances. It is economics that decides many practices including religious. There are nonvegetarians in theworld including in India for whom eating animal meat is a food. Where theirvis demand there will be a supplier. Bans will only push the market underground at higher costs and corruption will flourish. Alcohol is banned in Gujarat since 1947 and is available at higher costs thru well established networks and corruption is too well known. So let us discuss rationally and not emotionally though it is your right to do so.
India can sale them alive to other countries like Australia sells its live stock. Simple, after all Hindus object to slaughter and not to selling them. It's easy as that.
And then import the beef for consumption in India. Surely a great idea, the target community is also taken care off. Wow.
suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:Gulshanji has very nicely explained how animals are now not needed because of machines taking over their functions. So the religious protection now may look irrelevant. Animals are like properties which have to be profitable. If not they will get disposed off. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. and bans are not going to prevent but only establish new routes for their disposals. For diehard supporters it is a coincidence tat BJP ruled states are imposing such bans.
In that case should we allow killing of people no more useful/earning for the family? If the majority oppose killing of cow on religious basis what is wrong if government wishes to fulfill their wishes. After all different governments have been doing the same i the name of minority rights for ages in this country which are not applicable even in Arabian countries. For instance marriage of minor girls, family planning rules, theft (punishment - cutting off hands) Rapes etc etc. If the BJP ruled states are banning the cow slaughter other states should take a lesson and do that with immediate effect. Sorry it sounds harsh but that is naked truth. In my district alone there are at least 40-50 thousand animals slaughtered every day including camels, buffalo, cows and the meat exported to Arab countries. PLEASE DO NOT OPEN THESE LINKS IF YOU HAVE A WEAK HEART
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/black-curse-kali-river
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/category/285/thesaurus/slaughter-house/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZwiOgV1dGw
I am not against ban on cow slaughter on religious sentiments of Hindus. It is good to respect sentiments of Hindu community as well as others. But then we should clearly say this. The BJP governments deny that they are banning on Hindu religious grounds. They are giving other flimsy reasons to justify the ban. why they are shy of saying that religious sentiments of majority community also need be considered. To substantiate my point, I can say without any fear of contradiction that even BJP will not campaign for ban on cow slaughter in Kashmir, Kerala, Meghalaya, Nagaland- which don't have substantial Hindu population. Moreover in some states like Bengal, Hindus also eat beef. .
Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:Gulshanji has very nicely explained how animals are now not needed because of machines taking over their functions. So the religious protection now may look irrelevant. Animals are like properties which have to be profitable. If not they will get disposed off. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. and bans are not going to prevent but only establish new routes for their disposals. For diehard supporters it is a coincidence tat BJP ruled states are imposing such bans.
In that case should we allow killing of people no more useful/earning for the family? If the majority oppose killing of cow on religious basis what is wrong if government wishes to fulfill their wishes. After all different governments have been doing the same i the name of minority rights for ages in this country which are not applicable even in Arabian countries. For instance marriage of minor girls, family planning rules, theft (punishment - cutting off hands) Rapes etc etc. If the BJP ruled states are banning the cow slaughter other states should take a lesson and do that with immediate effect. Sorry it sounds harsh but that is naked truth. In my district alone there are at least 40-50 thousand animals slaughtered every day including camels, buffalo, cows and the meat exported to Arab countries. PLEASE DO NOT OPEN THESE LINKS IF YOU HAVE A WEAK HEART
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/black-curse-kali-river
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/category/285/thesaurus/slaughter-house/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZwiOgV1dGw
I am not against ban on cow slaughter on religious sentiments of Hindus. It is good to respect sentiments of Hindu community as well as others. But then we should clearly say this. The BJP governments deny that they are banning on Hindu religious grounds. They are giving other flimsy reasons to justify the ban. why they are shy of saying that religious sentiments of majority community also need be considered. To substantiate my point, I can say without any fear of contradiction that even BJP will not campaign for ban on cow slaughter in Kashmir, Kerala, Meghalaya, Nagaland- which don't have substantial Hindu population. Moreover in some states like Bengal, Hindus also eat beef. .
It's a fact that certain sects in Hindus are beef eaters.
Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:Gulshanji has very nicely explained how animals are now not needed because of machines taking over their functions. So the religious protection now may look irrelevant. Animals are like properties which have to be profitable. If not they will get disposed off. Sounds harsh but that is the reality. and bans are not going to prevent but only establish new routes for their disposals. For diehard supporters it is a coincidence tat BJP ruled states are imposing such bans.
In that case should we allow killing of people no more useful/earning for the family? If the majority oppose killing of cow on religious basis what is wrong if government wishes to fulfill their wishes. After all different governments have been doing the same i the name of minority rights for ages in this country which are not applicable even in Arabian countries. For instance marriage of minor girls, family planning rules, theft (punishment - cutting off hands) Rapes etc etc. If the BJP ruled states are banning the cow slaughter other states should take a lesson and do that with immediate effect. Sorry it sounds harsh but that is naked truth. In my district alone there are at least 40-50 thousand animals slaughtered every day including camels, buffalo, cows and the meat exported to Arab countries. PLEASE DO NOT OPEN THESE LINKS IF YOU HAVE A WEAK HEART
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://in.sudeshkumar.org/2011/05/ban-kamela-slaughterhouse-in-meerut.html
http://www.downtoearth.org.in/content/black-curse-kali-river
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/category/285/thesaurus/slaughter-house/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZwiOgV1dGw
I am not against ban on cow slaughter on religious sentiments of Hindus. It is good to respect sentiments of Hindu community as well as others. But then we should clearly say this. The BJP governments deny that they are banning on Hindu religious grounds. They are giving other flimsy reasons to justify the ban. why they are shy of saying that religious sentiments of majority community also need be considered. To substantiate my point, I can say without any fear of contradiction that even BJP will not campaign for ban on cow slaughter in Kashmir, Kerala, Meghalaya, Nagaland- which don't have substantial Hindu population. Moreover in some states like Bengal, Hindus also eat beef.
The states you have mentioned do not count even for 5-6% total population of India and one more fact not all people are cow eaters in these states too. The point in question is cow and not buffaloes etc.
@Vijai, we are talking about cow only and not all animals in this thread. The way the things are going on we shall soon be importing milk in India for sure.
The AG retracted his statement and said that goats etc would not come under purview of ban. But fact is hindus do rever the cow and i see nothing wrong in banning cow slaughter. I am in UAE and pork is banned, so why can't beef be banned here. There should be no politics in this. Hindus have been at the receiving end for 11 centuries. Its about time they asserted themselves.
MG Singh wrote:The AG retracted his statement and said that goats etc would not come under purview of ban. But fact is hindus do rever the cow and i see nothing wrong in banning cow slaughter. I am in UAE and pork is banned, so why can't beef be banned here. There should be no politics in this. Hindus have been at the receiving end for 11 centuries. Its about time they asserted themselves.
Thats a pertinent question you rised., "Why can't beef be banned?"
Since Muslims and Christians eat beef ,and they form a chunk of our population beef should be sold at certain outlets , unlike now where cows are rounded up anywhere and everywhere by the butchers and taken away.I have seen this happen here , in fact 2 cows from our ancestral home that were let out in the fields for grazing were taken away and when people stop these vehicles that operate illegally, political parties make an issue out of it..
suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:If cow slaughter is going to be approached from an religious angle then rational arguement cannot take place. Linking other social evils with it and bringing other country practices is causing confusion. The Hindu religion elevating the cow to a high status was perfectly alright in the times when cow fulfilled an economic purpose. The cow gave milk,.helped plough the field, its dung was a fuel, urine had medicinal value and after death its skin was used as leather. Truly the cow was revered as a mata and is referred today also as gowmata. However as its economic uses have been taken over by buffalo milk,tractors,coal and gas and plastics replacing leather, the cow has become almost totally replaceble. So its numbers are bound to go down. Also afterit stops being useful the owners find it economically tough to feed it and thus dispose it off just as in poultry farms hens are slaughtered once they stop laying eggs.The government can ban cow slaughter but how will it compensate the owner for the costs they will incurr after its economic life is over. That is a big issue. Owners are known to abandon them just as thousands of widows are abandoned and live in Mathura in dire circumstances. It is economics that decides many practices including religious. There are nonvegetarians in theworld including in India for whom eating animal meat is a food. Where theirvis demand there will be a supplier. Bans will only push the market underground at higher costs and corruption will flourish. Alcohol is banned in Gujarat since 1947 and is available at higher costs thru well established networks and corruption is too well known. So let us discuss rationally and not emotionally though it is your right to do so.
India can sale them alive to other countries like Australia sells its live stock. Simple, after all Hindus object to slaughter and not to selling them. It's easy as that.
Many in U.P. follow your suggestion and just transport the cows to areas where cow slaughter is not forbidden. But in the process, they are caught even for this. The police and Bajarang Dal together capture the cattle traders and rescue cows. This is very common in Agra. Then if we are serious against cows slaughter, nobody will let cows be transported elsewhere for slaughter. I believe that sentiments of Hindus also need be respected just as those of others. Let there be ban on cow slaughter. It is responsibility of majority community to see that cows are well maintained and protected. If they consider cow as holy and mother, this should be serious and not just a political issue to fan communal feelings. .
The scenario in AP is different in AP than that of Agra. The question of capturing the cows meant for slaughter houses will never arise. Beef trading is allowed in the markets. Here we respect the other religions' food habits and sentiments. Even the traders display openly boards declaring " Goddu Mamsam" means beef.
MG Singh wrote:The AG retracted his statement and said that goats etc would not come under purview of ban. But fact is hindus do rever the cow and i see nothing wrong in banning cow slaughter. I am in UAE and pork is banned, so why can't beef be banned here. There should be no politics in this. Hindus have been at the receiving end for 11 centuries. Its about time they asserted themselves.
Because pork is banned in UAE is not a reason to ban beef in India. Pork is not economically useful as the cow is but once was very very useful. Do UAE citizens rear pork. No. If cow slaughter is to be banned then post useful economic life the state must provide subsidy to keep the cow alive. The farmer has to bear the cost for pleasing arm chair supporters beliefs. By banning cow slaughter how are Hindus asserting themselves is not clear. Hindus asserting could be that they do not work in Islamic countries.
Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:If cow slaughter is going to be approached from an religious angle then rational arguement cannot take place. Linking other social evils with it and bringing other country practices is causing confusion. The Hindu religion elevating the cow to a high status was perfectly alright in the times when cow fulfilled an economic purpose. The cow gave milk,.helped plough the field, its dung was a fuel, urine had medicinal value and after death its skin was used as leather. Truly the cow was revered as a mata and is referred today also as gowmata. However as its economic uses have been taken over by buffalo milk,tractors,coal and gas and plastics replacing leather, the cow has become almost totally replaceble. So its numbers are bound to go down. Also afterit stops being useful the owners find it economically tough to feed it and thus dispose it off just as in poultry farms hens are slaughtered once they stop laying eggs.The government can ban cow slaughter but how will it compensate the owner for the costs they will incurr after its economic life is over. That is a big issue. Owners are known to abandon them just as thousands of widows are abandoned and live in Mathura in dire circumstances. It is economics that decides many practices including religious. There are nonvegetarians in theworld including in India for whom eating animal meat is a food. Where theirvis demand there will be a supplier. Bans will only push the market underground at higher costs and corruption will flourish. Alcohol is banned in Gujarat since 1947 and is available at higher costs thru well established networks and corruption is too well known. So let us discuss rationally and not emotionally though it is your right to do so.
India can sale them alive to other countries like Australia sells its live stock. Simple, after all Hindus object to slaughter and not to selling them. It's easy as that.
Many in U.P. follow your suggestion and just transport the cows to areas where cow slaughter is not forbidden. But in the process, they are caught even for this. The police and Bajarang Dal together capture the cattle traders and rescue cows. This is very common in Agra. Then if we are serious against cows slaughter, nobody will let cows be transported elsewhere for slaughter. I believe that sentiments of Hindus also need be respected just as those of others. Let there be ban on cow slaughter. It is responsibility of majority community to see that cows are well maintained and protected. If they consider cow as holy and mother, this should be serious and not just a political issue to fan communal feelings. .
I never knew cow slaughter is permitted anywhere in UP sir. As per my information the licence for slaughter houses is for buffaloes only and all the cows and camels, slaughtered are done illegally. That is the whole problem.
In fact even here in Karnataka cow slaughter is banned and if at all done it is under licence from the government.So we get to hear and read about various vehicles transporting cows being stopped and taken into custody.So, why is such a big hoolala made when it is done in Maharashtra? Is it because it is done by a BJP government ?
suni51 wrote:Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:If cow slaughter is going to be approached from an religious angle then rational arguement cannot take place. Linking other social evils with it and bringing other country practices is causing confusion. The Hindu religion elevating the cow to a high status was perfectly alright in the times when cow fulfilled an economic purpose. The cow gave milk,.helped plough the field, its dung was a fuel, urine had medicinal value and after death its skin was used as leather. Truly the cow was revered as a mata and is referred today also as gowmata. However as its economic uses have been taken over by buffalo milk,tractors,coal and gas and plastics replacing leather, the cow has become almost totally replaceble. So its numbers are bound to go down. Also afterit stops being useful the owners find it economically tough to feed it and thus dispose it off just as in poultry farms hens are slaughtered once they stop laying eggs.The government can ban cow slaughter but how will it compensate the owner for the costs they will incurr after its economic life is over. That is a big issue. Owners are known to abandon them just as thousands of widows are abandoned and live in Mathura in dire circumstances. It is economics that decides many practices including religious. There are nonvegetarians in theworld including in India for whom eating animal meat is a food. Where theirvis demand there will be a supplier. Bans will only push the market underground at higher costs and corruption will flourish. Alcohol is banned in Gujarat since 1947 and is available at higher costs thru well established networks and corruption is too well known. So let us discuss rationally and not emotionally though it is your right to do so.
India can sale them alive to other countries like Australia sells its live stock. Simple, after all Hindus object to slaughter and not to selling them. It's easy as that.
Many in U.P. follow your suggestion and just transport the cows to areas where cow slaughter is not forbidden. But in the process, they are caught even for this. The police and Bajarang Dal together capture the cattle traders and rescue cows. This is very common in Agra. Then if we are serious against cows slaughter, nobody will let cows be transported elsewhere for slaughter. I believe that sentiments of Hindus also need be respected just as those of others. Let there be ban on cow slaughter. It is responsibility of majority community to see that cows are well maintained and protected. If they consider cow as holy and mother, this should be serious and not just a political issue to fan communal feelings. .
I never knew cow slaughter is permitted anywhere in UP sir. As per my information the licence for slaughter houses is for buffaloes only and all the cows and camels, slaughtered are done illegally. That is the whole problem.
Cow slaughter is not permissible in U.P. That is why police take action against the offenders and Bajarang Dal helps police. Quite often, many are caught carrying cows for slaughter or transporting elsewhere. secretly. In such cases, Police and Bajarang dal act jointly.
Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:Gulshan Kumar Ajmani wrote:suni51 wrote:vijay wrote:If cow slaughter is going to be approached from an religious angle then rational arguement cannot take place. Linking other social evils with it and bringing other country practices is causing confusion. The Hindu religion elevating the cow to a high status was perfectly alright in the times when cow fulfilled an economic purpose. The cow gave milk,.helped plough the field, its dung was a fuel, urine had medicinal value and after death its skin was used as leather. Truly the cow was revered as a mata and is referred today also as gowmata. However as its economic uses have been taken over by buffalo milk,tractors,coal and gas and plastics replacing leather, the cow has become almost totally replaceble. So its numbers are bound to go down. Also afterit stops being useful the owners find it economically tough to feed it and thus dispose it off just as in poultry farms hens are slaughtered once they stop laying eggs.The government can ban cow slaughter but how will it compensate the owner for the costs they will incurr after its economic life is over. That is a big issue. Owners are known to abandon them just as thousands of widows are abandoned and live in Mathura in dire circumstances. It is economics that decides many practices including religious. There are nonvegetarians in theworld including in India for whom eating animal meat is a food. Where theirvis demand there will be a supplier. Bans will only push the market underground at higher costs and corruption will flourish. Alcohol is banned in Gujarat since 1947 and is available at higher costs thru well established networks and corruption is too well known. So let us discuss rationally and not emotionally though it is your right to do so.
India can sale them alive to other countries like Australia sells its live stock. Simple, after all Hindus object to slaughter and not to selling them. It's easy as that.
Many in U.P. follow your suggestion and just transport the cows to areas where cow slaughter is not forbidden. But in the process, they are caught even for this. The police and Bajarang Dal together capture the cattle traders and rescue cows. This is very common in Agra. Then if we are serious against cows slaughter, nobody will let cows be transported elsewhere for slaughter. I believe that sentiments of Hindus also need be respected just as those of others. Let there be ban on cow slaughter. It is responsibility of majority community to see that cows are well maintained and protected. If they consider cow as holy and mother, this should be serious and not just a political issue to fan communal feelings. .
I never knew cow slaughter is permitted anywhere in UP sir. As per my information the licence for slaughter houses is for buffaloes only and all the cows and camels, slaughtered are done illegally. That is the whole problem.
Cow slaughter is not permissible in U.P. That is why police take action against the offenders and Bajarang Dal helps police. Quite often, many are caught carrying cows for slaughter or transporting elsewhere. secretly. In such cases, Police and Bajarang dal act jointly.
You are right and who will know better about this problem than I do. I live near Meerut city where everything including cows to cars, public to pockets are cut by criminals far more than anywhere in the world.
So is banning going to solve the issue. For every demand there will be a supplier. And arm chair critics like us will debate the issues threadbare. Why should the practices not change with times. Should millions of years ago practices be followed today also when the whole environment has gone revolutionary changes.
vijay wrote:So is banning going to solve the issue. For every demand there will be a supplier. And arm chair critics like us will debate the issues threadbare. Why should the practices also change with times. Should millions of years ago practices be followed today also when the whole environment has gone revolutionary changes.
There is indeed revolutionary change. The ancient Aryans .are said to be beef eaters. But the descendants today in major part of India consider cow as sacred. This fact cannot be ignored. Cow slaughter is already prohibited in many states. This is a state subject and so state governments have to take appropriate action according to prevailing conditions.
@gkajmani